Change of Typeface Proposed

I really don't see why they need to change the typeface, im sure theirs far better things to do then changing the typeface.

Oh how reminiscent of First Great Western. Every time there were reliability problems, or lack of finance etc., they changed the livery - - 4 times in 5 years.

What a really sensible(!) use of cash: they don't even do their own design like they used to (as per Johnston) but hire in brand consulants at huge (wasted) expense.

Who said the days of Corporate Identity were over?

Mind you, now Cadbury's (under Kraft) are moving half their production to Poland I guess that after many of our population boycotts Cadbury products* we'll end up with "KRAFT" Dairy Milk etc..

*see the many petitions online and you'll realize this one's serious

BTW if one of the other forum staff reckons this is thread drift (which it nearly is...... ), please reprimand me below!!!

Indeed - or as the inimitable Mr. F tryped in another place that the TubeIxies hang out on:

'Imagine Creme Eggs filled with Cheese Whiz'

If this proposed loss of Johnston is genuine it MUST be challenged

I can't see this happening.....what would they change it to? Anything else would look stupid. If push came to shove I don't reckon it would happen. The cost of changing everything related to the Underground would be too much in itself.

But TFL don't use Johnston for books, or indeed press releases and other printed material of that ilk. I believe Ariel is the official font, coupled with headings/letterheads in New Johnston. How typical of the buffoon and clown that now runs this city to poke his ill-informed oar into "London's Handwriting" and destroy nearly 100 years of history. This cannot be allowed to happen, if only on expense grounds. In fact LT did deviate away from Johnston in the 1970s - think the early leaflets designed to accompany bus route OMO (as was) conversions, and also the "London's Transport" strapline used on posters. Both were pretty naff and best forgotten!

This has to be one of the stupidest things ever proposed.

_{mrfs, I can't seem to find any Facebook group on it (assuming you by "FB" meant Facebook), do you have a link please?}

I'm not sure this'll work, but...
"Save New Johnston (The London Transport typeface)"
www.facebook.com/home.php#!/group.php?gid=483843020028

I've been trying to chase down where the hell Marketing got this from for the last 10 days.

Short answer: I can find NOTHING to substantiate it. TfL are denying it (both officially and unofficially) and so are the Mayor's office. Most I've been able to find is that some talk has taken place about how TfL might support a more general brand if one existed, but that's it.

Frankly, and much as I hate to say it, as someone whose professional life has involved working directly with BrandRepublic/Marketing's journos before (I'm ex-Haymarket) the fact that this appears to be a totally unsubstantiated rumour doesn't particularly surprise me.

For anyone who cares, everything I've been able to establish is here:

londonreconnections.blogspot.com/2010/02/typographical-chinese-whispers.html

Why? Because design agencies do good "lunch meetings" I suspect!

In seriousness TfL aren't stupid though, and I can't really see them ever agreeing to something that would garner them even worse PR than the Royal Mail got with the whole Consignia debacle.

Thanks for spotting the bad link. Was meant to be a link back to the piece on Johnston I did last year (to give anyone who didn't know much about the history of Johnston some background).

So this piece here:

londonreconnections.blogspot.com/2009/09/typeface-for-underground.html

+1, I absolutely love typography and design, it's what got me into the Underground in the first place. Thanks V for sharing.

Oh, look at that lower case G! He likes it too, he's done it twice. Don't think much of the other two, though - a bit clumsy in comparison.

I think I get a sort of synaesthesia reaction to good typefaces because quite often they make me think of foods like marzipan and feta cheese and I want to eat them!

Oh. Did I say that out loud?

Indeed, Johnston (new or otherwise) was rarely used for body text in any official LT literature until around 2002 (I don't mean train times leaflets, they're what I call 'data' documents - I mean for paragraphs of text). For many decades a variety of fonts were used with a tendency towards Gill Sans as it's similar but more readable at small type sizes. Actually, "Bembo Italic" was the font of choice for LT from the late 80s and all of the 1990s until about 2001 for body text (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bembo). During this time New Johnston was only used for headings and large-point-size typography.

It was only after the creation of TfL as a body that the decision was made (about a year after inception) to use New Johnston for EVERYTHING. It seems the few short years since then has brainwashed many people into thinking Johnston was always used unwaveringly for everything for everbefore, which is not the case.

That said, I don't want to see any changes to TfL's branding, I think it's fine as it is. There was a similar furore when TfL was first established because the press mentioned that TfL were looking at how it was going to brand its operations, and the Metro and other news media reported that "the iconic roundel and Johnson (typical sic) typeface could well be consigned to history". Petitions, online and otherwise, duly sprung up, but it was clear that no such intention ever existed, and the only discussions that were taking place were how to *integrate* the roundel and typeface into the TfL family, not to get rid of them. I suspect a similar thing might be happening here.

The only thing I would like to see however is the removal of the phrase "Transport for London" to the left-hand-side of every instance of the roundel that appears on posters. Does everybody really need reminding of the parent organization 30 times in one location? It's gone a bit far now where even signs stuck up in stations showing those who put advertising posters into frames how to fix them in have "Transport for London" and "MAYOR OF LONDON" on them, as do the vinyl stickers plastered all over the Vic 69 stock. I'd like to see those things reserved only for 'corporate' literature such as the various transport visions, consultation leaflets sent to residents, perhaps station posters publicising changes to long-term service patterns (such as the Circle Line 'extension') but not on 'day-to-day' posters.