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 Author | Topic: Northern Line Extension... (Read 3,071 times) |
undergroundgal
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|  | Northern Line Extension...
« Thread Started on Dec 13, 2007, 11:32am » | |
In Sainsbury's yesterday my eye was caught by an issue of the local paper, which had a front-page article about the possibility of the Northern Line being extended to Potters Bar. I didn't have time to read the whole article, but did notice something about the old Northern Heights (Alexandra Palace etc) scheme being involved or a basis for it or something. Does anyone have any idea if there's the slightest chance this is actually going to happen, or is it complete and utter pie in the sky?
Edited to add: Never mind, found the article online. Seems the whole article was based off... "A member of a discussion forum has claimed there are plans to extend the London Underground's Northern Line up to the town to ease congestion."
Because they're always the most reliable source of information about this stuff. *g*
Anyone interested, the article is here.
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ajax the warrior
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| | Re: Northern Line Extension...
« Reply #1 on Dec 13, 2007, 5:17pm » | |
I saw that a few months ago in the ham and high it was very interesting like to see it open
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Rich32
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| | Re: Northern Line Extension...
« Reply #2 on Dec 13, 2007, 5:56pm » | |
Having read the article it sounds like a page-filler by a bored hack to try and generate some local hoo-ha! Realistically, with the current loadings, there's no chance of any extension of the Northern, unless they go back to the express tubes plans or build a completely new line - all pie-in-the-sky.
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undergroundgal
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| | Re: Northern Line Extension...
« Reply #3 on Dec 13, 2007, 6:10pm » | |
Quote:| Having read the article it sounds like a page-filler by a bored hack to try and generate some local hoo-ha! Realistically, with the current loadings, there's no chance of any extension of the Northern, unless they go back to the express tubes plans or build a completely new line - all pie-in-the-sky. |
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It must have been an exceedingly slow week then; the paper had it as front page news! ;) Which was the reason I didn't initially dismiss it out of hand at first glance. Still, it does seem to be just wishful thinking.
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Ben
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| | Re: Northern Line Extension...
« Reply #4 on Dec 13, 2007, 8:08pm » | |
I take it this is the online forum the paper quotes:
http://www.pottersbarforum.org/forum/showthread.php?tid=249&pid=1127
Now I know my spelling isnt top notch, but I point out the constant use of 'too' instead of 'to'. Indeed, it must have been a very slow week for a paper to quote a 'my-mate-in-the-pub-said' story. Myth busted?
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tfc
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| | Re: Northern Line Extension...
« Reply #5 on Dec 13, 2007, 9:20pm » | |
Local papers, don't ya just love them? Top headline from the Hebden Bridge Times when I was a kid "Bored Youth Kicks Tulip"  Top that one!!
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mackenzieblu
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| | Re: Northern Line Extension...
« Reply #6 on Dec 14, 2007, 1:07am » | |
Quote from the other forum
"Recently there been a bit of talk about Potters Bar railway station and the changes that have been going on. Well a mate of mine works for Tfl (Transport for London) says that Kings Cross now has overcrowing problems mostly from people going on the Northren Line. The loop would start at Edgware going along the line that was planned for the Northern Heights plan so the stations would be Bushey Heath, Elstree and Brockleyhill it should be noted both the stations and the tunnel were built in the 1930s but have never been used in today's money they cost aound 1/2 Billion £s (after WW2 the Green belt rules stopped the project being finished but with the growing numbers of people living there and growing car use it could now be build) too build the inner part of the Loop would carry on too Borehamwood, South Mimms before going into a tunnel at Potters Bar station all the way too Higth Barnet. The outter part of the Loop would go too Watford (where it would meet the met Line), before going too Radeltt, London colney before joining at Potters Bar (Potters Bar station could be moved as well but I get too that latter)."
Hmmm the tunnels are flooded and under the M1 if I remember correctly! The stations were never built expect Edgware (rebuilding) tho parts of the viaduct were (the remains are still there).
A mix of alot of old plans (the original idea of the Edgeware branch going to Watford even in the 30s was still considered desirable).
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Chris M
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| | Re: Northern Line Extension...
« Reply #7 on Dec 14, 2007, 1:11am » | |
"Local man dies of natural causes" is probably the best I can remember.
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| | Re: Northern Line Extension...
« Reply #8 on Dec 14, 2007, 9:23pm » | |
I would put a Northern Line extension to Potters Bar in the same category as the Central Line extension to Stansted, and the Victoria Line extension to Bognor.
I think I've just seen a flying pig!
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Alight
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| | Re: Northern Line Extension...
« Reply #9 on Dec 26, 2007, 3:16pm » | |
Sounds good but surely the Piccadilly Line is easier to extend as it can follow the route of the A111 which links Cockfosters directly to Potters Bar. Really it could go Cockfosters>Hadley Wood>Potters bar etc.
But of course we can't go destroying the green belt area and Trent Park so it would have to quite costly go underground.
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| | Re: Northern Line Extension...
« Reply #10 on Dec 27, 2007, 10:19am » | |
Extension of any of the tube lines would be a really bad idea, for a number of reasons.
Firstly, the area served by any extension would not have a high population density, and so probably would not repay the money spent on the extension.
Secondly, the central part of the lines is running pretty well at capacity, so extra passengers would not be welcome.
Thirdly, tube cars are designed for short-haul services and are not suitable for long journeys. (Try going by Central to Epping and back to see what I mean.)
It is worth remembering that it took longer to get from Barnet to Moorgate by electric tube than it did by LNER steam. The citizens of Potters Bar are not going to desert their fast electric main-line trains to travel by an all-stations Underground service, whether via Cockfosters or via Barnet.
To use on of my favourite phrases: let's get real!
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Chris M
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| | Re: Northern Line Extension...
« Reply #11 on Dec 27, 2007, 12:34pm » | |
The only exception to that is if the lines were extended one or two stops to meet an orbital rail service (a railway equivalent of the M25). I know this happening is not something that's likely to happen in the next decade or so though!
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mrjrt
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| | Re: Northern Line Extension...
« Reply #12 on Dec 27, 2007, 3:01pm » | |
Quote:Extension of any of the tube lines would be a really bad idea, for a number of reasons.
Firstly, the area served by any extension would not have a high population density, and so probably would not repay the money spent on the extension.
Secondly, the central part of the lines is running pretty well at capacity, so extra passengers would not be welcome.
Thirdly, tube cars are designed for short-haul services and are not suitable for long journeys. (Try going by Central to Epping and back to see what I mean.)
It is worth remembering that it took longer to get from Barnet to Moorgate by electric tube than it did by LNER steam. The citizens of Potters Bar are not going to desert their fast electric main-line trains to travel by an all-stations Underground service, whether via Cockfosters or via Barnet.
To use on of my favourite phrases: let's get real!
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There's something that you haven't considered though; Not everyone will be going into the central areas from any extension.
The advantage of plugging gaps like that comes from local movements of people. There's a lot of unused capacity at the ends of lines due to the need to have sufficient capacity in the central sections. Yes reversers are used to some extent but I've still never seen a packed train at Stanmore, Edgware or H&W. The advantage of tube lines comes from the turn up and go frequencies that enable local movements. People who live in Queensbury and work in Stanmore or Wembley and Harrow etc. A friend of mine works in Watford but lives in Wembley, so will end up on the Bakerloo at some point doing just what I've been saying. I wish the Northern had reached Bushey a few years earlier as all my family lives down in Hendon and Colindale (and at one time, Finchley). I believe if a bus journey takes over 35 minutes in a bus, there's an argument for a rail route. Buses should really only be used to plug special service gaps, and as feeder services to stations.
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| | Re: Northern Line Extension...
« Reply #13 on Dec 27, 2007, 9:09pm » | |
Quote:| The advantage of plugging gaps like that comes from local movements of people. There's a lot of unused capacity at the ends of lines due to the need to have sufficient capacity in the central sections. Yes reversers are used to some extent but I've still never seen a packed train at Stanmore, Edgware or H&W. |
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But in your own words, you have proven the point - as you have never seen a packed train at Stanmore, Edgware or H&W, surely this demonstrates that local movements are few and far between compared to the deluge of people going to the centre? All the local traffic from say Edgware to Golders Green/Hendon doesn't amount to much compared with the masses going from all points to town.
So true, lengthening a line will add a little local traffic, but masses more of people going to the centre of town.
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| | Re: Northern Line Extension...
« Reply #14 on Dec 29, 2007, 11:53pm » | |
Ignoring the desirability, whether you get to Potters Bar from Cockfosters or (worse) Barnet there is the not small problem of a rise in level of some hundreds of feet to overcome in a distance of only a couple or so miles. Huge engineering challenge for a railway.
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