Whitecross Street Goods Depot (Aldersgate)

[Deleted]

Does anybody have any info on Whitecross Street GNR MR/LMS goods depot located on the Widened Lines between Aldersgate and Moorgate. I believe that it closed in 1936. The only photograph I have managed to find on the web is at:

scienceandsociety.co.uk/results.asp?image=10445357&wwwflag=2&imagepos=33

Any assitance appreciated.

[Deleted]

Can't offer much but the "metadyne" website .....

metadyne.co.uk/LTSB.pdf

..... has two brief entries about the signal boxes there.

According to "Chronolgy of London Railways" (H.V. Borley, R&CHS, 1982), Whitecross Street goods depot was closed by the LMS on 1 March 1936.

[norbitonflyer]

The caption to the picture says it was a Midland Railway (not GNR) depot, which is consistent with the LMS having closed it - the GNR became part of the LNER in the Grouping, not the LMS.

It also says it closed following enemy action, purtting the closure date a few years later than 1936, although Subterranea Brittanica gives the 1936 date.

SB says there was a GN goods depot at Farringdon which closed in 1956 - the site is now carriage sidings next to the Snow Hill tunnel

[roythebus]

There's lots of interest in that photo. Ther device in the centre looks like a wagon tippler, maybe used to unload end-door coal wagons.

Note too the capstans; a lot of shunting would have been done handraulically or by horses with ropes, or power capstans in that era; also the wagon turntables, another popular item in goods yards, but seldom modelled.

[mrfs42]

Can't add anything much at the moment, apart from trains to and from Whitecross St. depot were signalled as 3 consecutively. See the post in the 'other place', when I've dug the regulations of of my library.

[mrfs42]

Having now looked around for what I've offer at the moment, it isn't an awful lot - however, I can give you this extract from the the 1924 Regulations for Signalmen:



and the bellcodes are:



with the preamble/wotever:



The curious shapes are a rather pants effort to square up the text; I've got the 1914 edition too:



and




I'll have a ferret around in the outer reaches of the library; can't promise anything, unfortunately.

[Deleted]

Feb 6, 2010 0:44:41 GMT roythebus said:

There's lots of interest in that photo. Ther device in the centre looks like a wagon tippler, maybe used to unload end-door coal wagons.

Note too the capstans; a lot of shunting would have been done handraulically or by horses with ropes, or power capstans in that era; also the wagon turntables, another popular item in goods yards, but seldom modelled.

Whoops My mistake. Certainly MR/LMS. I had in mind my next thread to come which is Farringdon Goods Depot GNR/LNER

I think the devices you can see may be hoists. One of my thoughts is that this may be the upper floor of a two storey building as the site was very cramped. Shame I cannot seem to find a track layout anywhere but hey, I have just dscovered that an article has been published in London Railway Record (January 2008) and I have ordered a copy in anticipation.

[Deleted]

Feb 6, 2010 15:46:45 GMT mrfs42 said:

I'll have a ferret around in the outer reaches of the library; can't promise anything, unfortunately.

Thanks M and for these and those in the other place

[Deleted]

Feb 5, 2010 23:01:46 GMT @reganorak said:

Can't offer much but the "metadyne" website .....

metadyne.co.uk/LTSB.pdf

..... has two brief entries about the signal boxes there.

According to "Chronolgy of London Railways" (H.V. Borley, R&CHS, 1982), Whitecross Street goods depot was closed by the LMS on 1 March 1936.

Thanks for that.

[roythebus]

The interior of Whitecross St looks a bit like Drayton Park Depot too!

you could be right about it being a first or second floor. It had me wondering when I looked at the pic as it didn't appear to be "underground" at all.

[Deleted]

I can now confirm that the photograph posted at the start of this thread shows the upper level of the two storey depot. The lifts were hydraulically operated and wagons were moved around using capstans and ropes. Like Smithfield depot the lower level was extremely tight for space and wagon turntables and a traverser were provided. The upper level is also quoted as being at street level.

I think that this photograph www.ltmcollection.org/images/webmax/0q/i000080q.jpg shows the entrance to the depot from the widened lines through the right hand arch of the bridge which ties in nicely with Harsigs 1926 diagram at www.harsig.org/PDF/CircleWidened.pdf and it is also possible that this photograph taken during WW2 www.ltmcollection.org/images/webmax/13/i0000813.jpg shows the (by then closed) depot on the left hand side.

[mrfs42]

Doing some digging around, and I've found in a 1935 CWL WTT the following:

Weekdays

KX 4.20am, 5.16am, 7.2am
W+ 4.28am, 5.24 am, 7.10am (all goods.)

W+ 5.10am, 6.5am, 7.43am
KX 5.18am, 6.13am, 7.51am (7.43 goods, 6.5 engine&brake, 5.10 LE)

SE

KX 10.17am, 1.15pm, 3.2 pm, 6.28pm, 8.8pm, 9.8pm
W+10.25am, 1.23pm, 3.10pm, 6.36pm, 8.16pm, 9.16pm (all goods, except 1.15pm exKX: Engine & Brake RR)

W+ 1.53pm, 4.5pm, 7.35pm, 8.35pm, 9.36pm
KX 2.1pm, 4.13pm, 7.45pm, 8.43pm, 9.44pm (all goods except 1.53pm ex W+ being RR

SO

KX 10.17am, 3.0pm, 6.28pm
W+ 10.25am, 3.8pm, 6.36pm (all goods)

W+ 11.10am, 4.5pm, 7.35pm
KX 11.18am, 4.13pm, 7.45pm (all goods)

Lamps for Whitecross Street were blue at the base of the chimney and white in the middle of the smokebox base.

[Deleted]

Thanks to all above. I think we have exhausted the flow of info for now. At least I have a track layout of the basement level now