Crossrail Confusion

[Tubetrain29]

As you probably know, a couple of Crossrail stations are going to be connected to more than one London Underground Station-Farringdon Crossrail station will be connected Farringdon and Barbican LU stations, and Liverpool Street Crossrail station will be connected to Liverpool Street and Moorgate LU stations.

I would imagine it would be confusing for tourists because you could be in Moorgate station, go down a flight of escalators and then be in Liverpool Street station.

I know that someone is going to post that 'Bank-Monument is just like this and it's not confusing.' But there are two big differences between Bank-Monument and the Crossrail stations. The first difference is that at Bank-Monument, the stations are clearly separate, and you have to use a long walkway to get between them. At the Crossrail stations, you only have to go down a flight of escalators to be in a different station. The second difference is that no lines serve both Bank and Monument, but at the Crossrail stations which serve multiple LU stations, there are lines which serve both of the stations.

Here is an example of how confusing it could be:
A tourist has got off the Northern Line at Moorgate. They are going to Liverpool Street to get the Stansted Express. They are looking for either the Circle, Hammersmith & City or Metropolitan lines. They go down an escalator (as they are a tourist they do not know that the lines they are looking for are sub-surface) and find themself on a platform. The sign on the wall says 'Liverpool Street'. The tourist is extremely confused as they have apparently travelled one stop down the line without getting on a train or leaving the station.

[pitdiver]

Totally agree with videomaniac29. I'm confused and I have lived and worked in London. I also have some knowledge of the geography of the London Underground. God help the tourists from outside London let alone outside of the UK.

[ducatisti]

You can do it already from Southwark (Jubilee) - Waterloo East - Waterloo - Waterloo underground.

I think the answer is more maps, and possiby lines in the floor. But please not maps by diverging tunnels, or they will be clogged by tourists.

[Tubetrain29]

I forgot about Waterloo-Southwark, but like Bank-Monument, they are obviously separate. You have to exit a building, walk over a bridge, walk along a platform, and enter a different building. At Moorgate station, you will only have to go down an escalator to be in Liverpool Street station!

[andypurk]

Oct 20, 2011 5:39:36 GMT Tubetrain29 said:

Her is an example of how confusing it could be:
A tourist has got off the Northern Line at Moorgate. They are going to Liverpool Street to get the Stansted Express. They are looking for either the Circle, Hammersmith & City or Metropolitan lines. They go down an escalator (as they are a tourist they do not know that the lines they are looking for are sub-surface) and find themself on a platform. The sign on the wall says 'Liverpool Street'. The tourist is extremely confused as they have apparently travelled one stop down the line without getting on a train or leaving the station.

If the tourist doesn't know which platform they need at Moorgate then why are they just going down a random escalator? In any case, the walk won't be much longer than many other possible interchanges, such as the step-free route from the Victoria line to St. Pancras Eurostar.

There are several other places around the world where you can walk from one station to another underground, via a platform, including several on the Paris Metro / RER (e.g. the St. Lazare complex or Chatelet-les Halle) and where signage is much worse than on TfL stations.

[Tubetrain29]

Oct 20, 2011 8:36:24 GMT andypurk said:

If the tourist doesn't know which platform they need at Moorgate then why are they just going down a random escalator?

I've seen tourists do a lot more unusual things on the London Underground than just going down a random escalator....

But the escalators to the Crossrail platforms will probably have signage above them saying something like 'Liverpool Street - Crossrail', and the tourist would follow the signs because they say Liverpool Street which is where the tourist needs to go.

[andypurk]

Oct 20, 2011 8:44:25 GMT Tubetrain29 said:

Oct 20, 2011 8:36:24 GMT andypurk said:

If the tourist doesn't know which platform they need at Moorgate then why are they just going down a random escalator?

I've seen tourists do a lot more unusual things on the London Underground than just going down a random escalator....

But the escalators to the Crossrail platforms will probably have signage above them saying something like 'Liverpool Street - Crossrail', and the tourist would follow the signs because they say Liverpool Street which is where the tourist needs to go.

Why would the signs even mention Liverpool Street? Surely any signage will just say Crossrail with a map. Like at Bank, where the signs generally have just the Circle / District lines mentioned without Monument.

[Tubetrain29]

Possibly, but at Bank-Monument all of the lines are either LU or DLR. Crossrail is completely different from LU so I think that there would be signs saying 'Crossrail-Liverpool Street'.

[mrfs42]

Oct 20, 2011 11:25:11 GMT railtechnician said:

There seems to be no common sense these days, almost everyone wants to be held by the hand and thinks everyone else does too.

<FB> I like this very much!</FB>

British Humans are now regarded as being incapable of negotiating a transport system; and every transport system is a disaster waiting to happen!

[chrisvandenkieboom]

Meh, I didn't use the Stansted Express anyway, Eurostar ftw!
For CR, signage is going to need some updating. For instance, a proper National Rail sign will do.

(Can they also do Waterloo then while they're at it? Waterloo mentions the opening of the London Eye in late 1999 - which was 12 years ago)

[castlebar]

@ chrisvandankietc.,

You said, "For CR, signage is going to need some updating. For instance, a proper National Rail sign will do.", and whereas you are correct, and no doubt this will be given a priority, (Don't quangomeisters just love corporate identity), have you any idea just 'designing a sign' actually costs??, (and getting it approved by an overpaid committee)

I expect they could build the long overdue Park Royal interchange for the same money!!

[chrisvandenkieboom]

Oct 20, 2011 12:57:15 GMT castlebar said:

@ chrisvandankietc.,

You said, "For CR, signage is going to need some updating. For instance, a proper National Rail sign will do.", and whereas you are correct, and no doubt this will be given a priority, (Don't quangomeisters just love corporate identity), have you any idea just 'designing a sign' actually costs??, (and getting it approved by an overpaid committee)

I expect they could build the long overdue Park Royal interchange for the same money!!

Is signage actually that expensive? Just one simple sign saying National Rail?

[castlebar]

Yes Chris

Signage is never that easy. It will have to be designed and they will want a new logo for it. This will require a committee to decide who should design it. Then they will all want to discuss proposals. And then the colour, etc etc etc and so it will go on. You have no idea how these people work and how slowly they can work when their own money is not involved in them spending it.

[chrisvandenkieboom]

Wow, what a bureaucracy at TfL...

[andypurk]

Oct 20, 2011 9:23:58 GMT Tubetrain29 said:

Possibly, but at Bank-Monument all of the lines are either LU or DLR. Crossrail is completely different from LU so I think that there would be signs saying 'Crossrail-Liverpool Street'.

In what way will the LU/Crossrail interface (both owned by TfL) at Moorgate be different from the LU/DLR interface (also both TfL systems) at Bank/Monument?

Parts of the Bank/Monument complex 'belong' to different parts of TfL as will parts of the Moorgate/Liverpool Street complex in the future.

As someone else as said, this connection will not be a big problem, compared to all the other tourist confusions available on the Underground.