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Post by eurostarengineer on Dec 19, 2011 17:35:54 GMT
You cannot expect cable to be laid, adjusted and secured over night. Cable runs are one of the easiest but nightmare-ish jobs.
Cabling is laid out in a 'free form' state at first, when all the meter-age's are correct the cabling shall be secured and wired up to their junction boxes/terminals etc.
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Post by tridentalx on Dec 19, 2011 22:16:03 GMT
I'm pretty sure it's at Waterloo I noticed this. The TBTC cables that have been installed are nothing like on the Bank branch! They were at the bottom of the pit, with more of an X shaped crossover than the usual straight one. I assume this is a total screw-up by Tube Lines yet again?  I saw a photo of a section that looks like this last week and have just seen this thread again. It looks like a short section of loop has been incorrectly installed. It should be at the top of the pit and, as you say, the crossovers are wrong. Will need to be fixed. The cabling is installed by Thales though not Tube Lines. |
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Post by tridentalx on Dec 19, 2011 22:19:07 GMT
I may sound like a doomster here but I think this Upgrade is going to be a right mess and will take forver to finally be finished. On the Edgeware branch the loop cable has not even been installed yet from what I have heard only preperation for it. Yes you do sound like a doomster and not sure what evidence you have for your claim it will be a right mess. The Edgware branch is to be the last to be commissioned with TBTC so at the earliest will be mid to late 2013 so there isn't a need for the loop to have been laid here yet. |
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Post by Guest on Dec 20, 2011 0:39:41 GMT
Yes you do sound like a doomster and not sure what evidence you have for your claim it will be a right mess. Like most things on here, because it is far easier to argue against something than for it. I know the cables you mean. Or they may have worked out that they can still get the loops to generate signal that far down in the pit and in that fashion. Would be interesting to know as I have noticed it too. |
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Post by Guest on Dec 20, 2011 8:34:29 GMT
Well it might go ok but the Jubilee line upgrade has made me had my doubts and even when it does get switched on. How reliable will this system be? The TBTC still sometimes fail on the Jubilee line. However though all signaling upgrades are genrally a mess anyway! Even the Central lines upgrade was late and that was before PPP!
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Post by eurostarengineer on Dec 20, 2011 13:19:54 GMT
Jardine01, I assume that you are a railway professional holding such views?
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Post by Guest on Dec 20, 2011 15:29:45 GMT
I am not a railway professional compared to some people on here. As in a earlier post it is easy to say your views on a forum. The Northern line upgrade should go well if there is no set backs and is well planned. The Jubilee line upgrade was a mess but thats tube lines fault. I am sure once the Northern line gets TBTC it will be fine in the end.
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Post by ajax the warrior on Dec 20, 2011 19:43:23 GMT
As a regular northern line passenger who has been using the line for years and 4/5 days a week in the morning peak for the past four months, I have to say the current service provided on the line is very robust and I’ve never experienced any significant hold ups in the four months. IIRC it was even the most reliable on LU not so long ago and could still be. If the upgrades are late, I'm not bothered, what we get now is very reasonable and it would be great if TBTC improves it slightly. Jardine01, I assume that you are a railway professional holding such views? You don't really have to be a "professional" to understand what jardine has mentioned. Anyone can research facts on the internet and experience such things as a passenger. |
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Post by ta on Dec 21, 2011 1:21:09 GMT
Just correcting what was said earlier in the thread, the first section to switch over to TBTC will be High Barnet to West Finchley. And each section will open with ATO from the beginning, there won't be a later changeover from Protected Manual operation to ATO.
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Post by ducatisti on Dec 21, 2011 8:59:17 GMT
I don't think anyone can argue that the installation of the Jubilee upgrade was anything other than a foul-up. It took ages, left huge swathes of people without trains for long periods of time and did not deliver a reliable service after installation for a long time after it was supposedly complete.
Whilst there are a number of reasons for that, I don't think simply questionning someone's credentials as a "qualifed railway professional" (whatever one of those is) when they express concern about the likely problems with the Northern Line installation is helpful. I haven't seen any evidence that lessons have actually been learned from the Jubilee. I've seen lots of management people saying lessons have been learned, but that's not the same thing at all.
Yes Tubelines won't be doing it, but I'd like to know (1) who the contractors doing the work are, (2) how this differs from the Jubilee, (3) how much project management time has been spent and who has tested and verified all the timings/pricings for the jobs, (4) what qualifications and experience of successful underground projects the management team of all parties have. Unless these are better than the jubilee line, then from my professional experience, I wouldn't expect any improvement.
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Post by ducatisti on Dec 21, 2011 9:00:17 GMT
I don't think anyone can argue that the installation of the Jubilee upgrade was anything other than a foul-up. It took ages, left huge swathes of people without trains for long periods of time and did not deliver a reliable service after installation for a long time after it was supposedly complete.
Whilst there are a number of reasons for that, I don't think simply questionning someone's credentials as a "qualifed railway professional" (whatever one of those is) when they express concern about the likely problems with the Northern Line installation is helpful. I haven't seen any evidence that lessons have actually been learned from the Jubilee. I've seen lots of management people saying lessons have been learned, but that's not the same thing at all.
Yes Tubelines won't be doing it, but I'd like to know (1) who the contractors doing the work are, (2) how this differs from the Jubilee, (3) how much project management time has been spent and who has tested and verified all the timings/pricings for the jobs, (4) what qualifications and experience of successful underground projects the management team of all parties have. Unless these are better than the jubilee line, then from my professional experience, I wouldn't expect any improvement.
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Post by Guest on Dec 21, 2011 9:35:42 GMT
When the line goes ATO section by Section I hope they don't do it like the Jubilee line did like most of the line goes ATO in one go due to setbacks. They must drive in Protected Manual before ATO they have to make sure TBTC is safe & reliable before they can even think about going ATO. When TBTC went into operation on the Jubilee line it was in protected Manual for a few days and gradually brought in ATO.
I think lessons have been learned but its a complex signaling system and probally even more complex than the Jubilee line. Thales is Doing the upgrade for the Northern.
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Post by tridentalx on Dec 23, 2011 21:54:52 GMT
Whilst there are a number of reasons for that, I don't think simply questionning someone's credentials as a "qualifed railway professional" (whatever one of those is) when they express concern about the likely problems with the Northern Line installation is helpful. I haven't seen any evidence that lessons have actually been learned from the Jubilee. I've seen lots of management people saying lessons have been learned, but that's not the same thing at all. Yes Tubelines won't be doing it, but I'd like to know (1) who the contractors doing the work are, (2) how this differs from the Jubilee, (3) how much project management time has been spent and who has tested and verified all the timings/pricings for the jobs, (4) what qualifications and experience of successful underground projects the management team of all parties have. Unless these are better than the jubilee line, then from my professional experience, I wouldn't expect any improvement. Not sure what lessons you would expect to see widely visible (i.e. to customers) at this stage ? Some examples - less closures, keeping the migration to smaller sections, ensuring ATO is available when each section is switched on, not wasting time with a dual-fitted area, changing the contract with Thales, bringing Tube Lines in house, carrying out in service monitoring of key system components. Tube Lines will be delivering the project, just from within the TfL group and without the "help" of Bechtel who were supposed to be the experts you refer to. Thales is still, obviously, the signalling contractor. |
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Post by Guest on Dec 23, 2011 22:45:16 GMT
I think closures will happen frequently and there is a big shut down over easter time I think.
Unfortantly this upgrade we probally won't see any increase in speeds due to the curves on the line.
Is the Northern line going to have a dual fitted area? However less closures means less work will be done which is going to make this upgrade finish later. Some people would probally shoot me for saying this but I think they should most of the line for a few weeks and get as much work done as possible.
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Post by cityboy on Dec 27, 2011 9:47:45 GMT
Found this along with Tfl's explanation, 'Now we're at the final hurdle which involves a lot of testing and checking of equipment so it's much better to have a big chunk of time to do this in.' www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rEz1FHqpKs&feature=player_embedded#! presumably this only refers to The High Barnet branch but I see from Tfl's track closure schdule, there are still lots more late morning openings rolling into June 2012... but can anyone clarify the facts from the fiction? I.E. how far along is the upgrade at the moment? |
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