Crossrail 2 line diagrams

[Ben]

But that would once again create the crazy situation of a metro line passing underneath the spot of a metro station without platforms being provided.

London needs more connectivity, yet whats even more worrying is that ever since the victoria line, new interchanges have become worse; more convoluted, practically cross platform options, etc.

Its not a question of CBR or pennypinching or second guessing future means of use; London is at the point now where if you build it, they will come. Personally I'm in favour of more stations and interchanges because of tactical reasons. The Jubilee was built ultra-sized to future proof it, however whenever it shuts down a large part of london becomes tubeless. Now if Angel had a fire alarm, people from the northeast of CR2 might instead change at KX to go towards Moorgate, KX might become overcrowded, domino effect, etc etc. Or, it might just be busy enough to ensure people have a miserable journey and a headache. Knowing that a taxpayer/farepayer funded stop on the route at Essex Road was ommitted because it wasn't considered to provide enough benefit would now look embarrissing.


Bottom line: require redundancy, build it, or provide enough enabling works to allow it to be build realistically later.

[northerncityman]

Aug 20, 2012 23:45:50 GMT Ben said:

But that would once again create the crazy situation of a metro line passing underneath the spot of a metro station without platforms being provided..

On that basis, would you argue that a Victoria Line station should be built where the Picadilly Line crosses it, at Manor House ? Even though it would slow the journey for VL passengers, and serve only to duplicate the interchange available one station earlier, at Finsbury Park. The cost of providing an interchange has to be weighed against just how little benefit it may bring, surely ?

[Ben]

Victoria line platforms might have been provided, had spending not been as restricted, as part of a plan to build straight tunnels for the Piccadilly to Manor House. However, point taken I was more refering to interchanges where a simple linear duplication of options isn't provided, eg Shoreditch High Street or Brixton.

[aslefshrugged]

A question just occured thanks to another thread, where would the depots be for the Metro scheme, is there anywhere large enough between Chelsea and Clapham or north of King's Cross?

Wimbledon was marked down for the original Chelney Line and will serve the south end of the Regional scheme but the proposed depot for the other end is now the Olympic Park and is no longer on the route. I guess there must be some space north of Waltham Cross but I don't really know that area.

[stephenk]

Aug 23, 2012 18:08:58 GMT aslefshrugged said:

A question just occured thanks to another thread, where would the depots be for the Metro scheme, is there anywhere large enough between Chelsea and Clapham or north of King's Cross?

Wimbledon was marked down for the original Chelney Line and will serve the south end of the Regional scheme but the proposed depot for the other end is now the Olympic Park and is no longer on the route. I guess there must be some space north of Waltham Cross but I don't really know that area.

I wondered the same thing. Options from mild to ridiculous below for both old and potential new CRR2 routes:
Take over Wimbledon NR depot (at surface)- but where will the NR trains live?
Stewarts Lane (at surface or underground) - but not on the via Kings Road route, and would make some NR trains homeless.
Eton Manor (olympics coach park) (underground)
Lordship Recreation Ground (underground)
Various Upper Lea Valley Development sites (surface or underground with buildings above) - many of sites to be redeveloped for business and housing appears to currently be light industrial/warehouse land - depot could be at surface with new developments above a la White City and Hong Kong MTR depots.

Before anyone questions underground depots. They would be cut and cover construction are not that uncommon. Underground Depots can be found in London (White City), most Bucharest Metro depots (the most recent being under a stadium), Montreal, Paris, Tokyo, and Singapore.

Storing more trains outside of depots also needs to be looked at if depot space is short. For example, Paris Metro typically stores most trains in the sidings beyond the terminus stations, with only trains requiring maintenance and checks stored in the depot.

[aslefshrugged]

I think you'll find that the Eton Manor coach park is actually part of Hackney Marsh, the East Marsh to be precise, and there are written guarantees from the LDA, etc, that this will be restored to football pitches after the Games. Any suggestion otherwise would be met with strong opposition from the locals and the thousands who play football there.

The White City sidings, of which I am very familiar, were only possible because of the Westfield development, if that hadn't gone ahead we'd still be using the old surface level sidings they replaced.

[stephenk]

Aug 31, 2012 3:15:37 GMT aslefshrugged said:

I think you'll find that the Eton Manor coach park is actually part of Hackney Marsh, the East Marsh to be precise, and there are written guarantees from the LDA, etc, that this will be restored to football pitches after the Games. Any suggestion otherwise would be met with strong opposition from the locals and the thousands who play football there.

An underground depot would allow eventual restoration of football pitches, but would also result in many years of it being a big hole in the ground during construction.

The White City sidings, of which I am very familiar, were only possible because of the Westfield development, if that hadn't gone ahead we'd still be using the old surface level sidings they replaced.

Underground, or surface depots with buildings above could be built as part of housing developments in the Upper Lea Valley.

Interested to know if anyone has any better ideas for potential depot sites along a CRR2 metro route?

[oldman48]

I have been thinking about this and it seems to me that the efforts of the DfT and TfL needs to focused on reducing the numbers of commuters from outside London needing to use the main terminus stations and the underground lines.

To this end the regional Crossrail 2 appears to fit the requirements. Not only does it connect Victoria Station to Euston, St Pancras and Kings Cross (through the Kings Cross/St Pancras underground station). It also connects commuters from North East and South West of London directly to Crossrail 1 and the Thameslink network.

This will reduce the need for these people to use the underground network which should significantly reduce the amount of people using the Victoria Line but will also help to reduce the amount of people that need to use the underground network, from the terminus stations served, to get to work.

For the Victoria line that could mean that it could be extended north up the Chingford line and south from Brixton with the possibility of branched East to the Hainault loop or the Epping branch of the Central Line and West to the Wimbledon Branch of the District line or to Barnes and connecting to the South West Trains commuter Services (possibly taking over or sharing the Hounslow loop line).

From there if similar Crossrail/Thameslink lines were also built connecting Waterloo to Euston stations and Fenchurch Street to Marylebone stations then this would allow extensions to the Bakerloo and Northern (Charing Cross branch) lines with possible reductions in the overcrowding on the Hammersmith & City, Metropolitan, Circle and District Lines.

I do realise that all this would take a long time and it is unlikely that I would see all of this built. However in the long term it would help the people of London reclaim the London Underground for there own use and move much of the commuter traffic onto other lines.
I have been thinking about this and it seems to me that the efforts of the DfT and TfL needs to focused on reducing the numbers of commuters from outside London needing to use the main terminus stations and the underground lines.

To this end the Regional Crossrail 2 appears to fit the requirements. Not only does it connect Victoria Station to Euston, St Pancras and Kings Cross (through the Kings Cross/St Pancras underground station). It also connects commuters from North East and South West of London directly to Crossrail 1 and the Thameslink network.

This will reduce the need for these people to use the underground network which should significantly reduce the amount of people using the Victoria Line but will also help to reduce the amount of people that need to use the underground network, from the terminus stations served, to get to work.

For the Victoria line that could mean that it could be extended north up the Chingford line and south from Brixton with the possibility of branched East to the Hainault loop or the Epping branch of the Central Line and West to the Wimbledon Branch of the District line or to Barnes and connecting to the South West Trains commuter Services (possibly taking over or sharing the Hounslow loop line).

From there if similar Crossrail/Thameslink lines were also built connecting Waterloo to Euston stations and Fenchurch Street to Marylebone stations then this would allow extensions to the Bakerloo and Northern (Charing Cross branch) lines with possible reductions in the overcrowding on the Hammersmith & City, Metropolitan, Circle and District Lines.

I do realise that all this would take a long time and it is unlikely that I would see all of this built. However in the long term it would help the people of London reclaim the London Underground for there own use and move much of the commuter traffic onto other lines.