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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2013 15:19:38 GMT
From Wnxx forums:
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Post by bassmike on Aug 25, 2013 13:02:38 GMT
the way this is written/spelt does not inspire confidence in the way these items have been looked after considering that they are a rare survival.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2013 21:49:18 GMT
Indeed I had. Wondering how to respond - if at all. Sad.
Went to the SPA Valley in 2010 when they were supposed to run both coaches for a special LT event. Only one was available to run. However, I covered it photographically for Underground News and the feedback from them was excellent. It seems as though the LT side of it has gone downhill since then. We are most likely going sometime next weekend, which was planned long before this was posted, but am in two minds whether to make myself known or not.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2013 22:20:26 GMT
The Epping & Ongar Railway would be a potential good home for these historic cars.
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metman
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Post by metman on Aug 27, 2013 11:53:07 GMT
Or the Buckinghamshire railway centre?
I guess re-equipping them would be out of the question?
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Post by phillw48 on Aug 27, 2013 16:57:08 GMT
Re-equipping them should not be a problem. Restoring the interior would be more problematic as apparently they were gutted at some time after withdrawal. Also a lot of the control equipment is still intact and if suitable motors could be found and installed. Ideally if they were restored to running order they could be used to 'top and tail' with Sarah Siddons with suitable rolling stock equipped with through cabling.
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Post by maxym on Aug 30, 2013 17:26:01 GMT
the way this is written/spelt does not inspire confidence in the way these items have been looked after considering that they are a rare survival. You missed off the capital at the beginning of the sentence. |
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metman
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Post by metman on Aug 30, 2013 17:58:20 GMT
Re-equipping them should not be a problem. Restoring the interior would be more problematic as apparently they were gutted at some time after withdrawal. Also a lot of the control equipment is still intact and if suitable motors could be found and installed. Ideally if they were restored to running order they could be used to 'top and tail' with Sarah Siddons with suitable rolling stock equipped with through cabling. 'If' they could be restored to working order then they could operate with Dreadnought or Ashbury stock as they used to. Off course these cars didn't actually operate with either in service but a bit of license could be operated. They would need vacuum brakes too. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2013 18:07:21 GMT
Maybe T Mobile could sponsor the restoration!
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Post by phillw48 on Aug 30, 2013 21:49:43 GMT
Re-equipping them should not be a problem. Restoring the interior would be more problematic as apparently they were gutted at some time after withdrawal. Also a lot of the control equipment is still intact and if suitable motors could be found and installed. Ideally if they were restored to running order they could be used to 'top and tail' with Sarah Siddons with suitable rolling stock equipped with through cabling. 'If' they could be restored to working order then they could operate with Dreadnought or Ashbury stock as they used to. Off course these cars didn't actually operate with either in service but a bit of license could be operated. They would need vacuum brakes too. Didn't they only operate with Dreadnought stock? However as I stated ideally they could operate a train with Sarah Siddons at one end and the pair of T stock at the other with the Dreadnought or 4-TC or whatever in between. A vacuum exhauster could easily be fitted but was not the Dreadnought stock dual braked? |
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metman
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Post by metman on Aug 31, 2013 9:05:23 GMT
Only half (6 cars) of the 1927 MV batch was vacuum braked and worked with 15 cars of dreadnought stock. The rest of the fleet was Westinghouse air braked and ran initially with bogie stock and later purpose built trailers. The cars in question fell into the latter category. The 3 trains of vacuum braked stock were converted to Westinghouse from 1935.
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Post by bassmike on Aug 31, 2013 13:57:15 GMT
hallo maxym----so i diD
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Aug 31, 2013 17:31:36 GMT
The wiki artical on the T stock is fairly authoritive, being based on info in 'Steam to Silver'. What became 'T' stock motor cars did work with trailers of Ashbury stock that had been converted to electric sets, in place of the converted motor cars of that stock. There are differences between the control equipment of Sarah as now, as at the time of Dreadnought service, and of the T stock, and thats before you get into brakes and motors and gearing. It is a pity that more of the Met compartment stock wasn't kept, frankly, as its debateably what could be formed including all of whats left, even before you get to questions of authenticity. A caption from a picture of the opening of the Stanmore branch springs to mind though. The picture is of a multiple unit including MW or MV motors, a pullman and the Rothchilds saloon, and a few dreadnoughts. The comment was that it must have caused the electrical engineer at Neasden some headaches in getting the wiring to match and work! I bring it up because given the changes the innards of the Met-Vic locos and the T stock motors underwent over the years, perhaps the most practical way forward would be to start with making something similar to what went before but compatible with what there is now. Or... if you realy wanted to maximise potential sources of income... some kind of electro-diesel gubbins?  |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2013 10:40:47 GMT
Unfortunately the motors, plus much of the switchgear and cabling were removed prior to Spa Valley ownership. They do however retain Westinghouse controls in the cabs which has enabled basic push/pull / propelling movements with a suitable air braked locomotive in the past. They are lovely coaches with significant amounts of teak used in the body frame and compartment interiors giving a real vintage feel, but due to their suburban seating layout have never really been used much at the Spa Valley. Vehicles of this type really need to be either regularly used or kept under cover in museum conditions to avoid deterioration, and protect them from vandalism. The railway is aware of their historical significance and it is for this reason that they are looking to sell or place them on long term loan to another railway/organisation who can make better use of them and ensure their long term protection.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2013 12:38:32 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2013 16:08:34 GMT
Still there three weekends ago.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2014 18:57:08 GMT
Now March 2014 and still no buyer. Probably because they would need some serious attention before they could become useful to a preserved railway.
I wonder if a preservation group could be put together?...............
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Post by phillw48 on Mar 30, 2014 22:43:32 GMT
Getting a preservation group together would not be difficult, its finding people with the requisite skills and a suitable place to keep and restore them. Add to that the tendency for such stock to become a money pit its no surprise that no one is interested.
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Post by rsdworker on Mar 30, 2014 22:50:43 GMT
maybe they should either scrap it or put in safe place till buyer is found
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2014 6:23:27 GMT
maybe they should either scrap it or put in safe place till buyer is found I sincerely hope they don't consider scrapping them.
However, I wonder if the EOR would be interested if they manage to sell off 4CIG 1498.
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metman
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Post by metman on Mar 31, 2014 6:39:15 GMT
Is the LTM not interested in buying them? They could be kept in ruislip?
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Post by phillw48 on Mar 31, 2014 8:12:44 GMT
Is the LTM not interested in buying them? They could be kept in ruislip? They are struggling to finance the restoration of the Q stock so I don't think so. |
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Post by geriatrix on Mar 31, 2014 8:31:32 GMT
Presume no interest from Bucks Railway Centre (Quainton) either, which is a great shame. I'd hate to see these scrapped.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2014 18:14:44 GMT
Is the LTM not interested in buying them? They could be kept in ruislip? They are struggling to finance the restoration of the Q stock so I don't think so. Would the LTM be paying for the storage space at Ruislip? |
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Post by roboverground on Jun 10, 2014 15:53:17 GMT
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Post by bassmike on Jun 11, 2014 10:54:29 GMT
Get the dreadnoughts from Keithley and Worth valley and you could have a T stock train
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metman
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Post by metman on Jun 11, 2014 12:42:39 GMT
This has been dealt with some time ago but....
The trouble with these cars is that their traction equipment was removed some time ago. They are at best useful as Driving Trailers. I'm not sure where or if any equipment could be found to get them running. I don't really think C stock motors could be adapted nor the MA/Compressors either. T stock used Electro-Pneumatic equipment which is very different to the PCM used on the more recent stock. They would need vacuum brakes to operated with Dreadnoughts which they did not originally have!
I'd hate to see them scrapped though. Can we club together the 20K needed?
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Post by phillw48 on Jun 11, 2014 13:25:45 GMT
IIRC the electrical equipment was the same as some of the contemporary Southern Railway EMU's. However most of those have now been scrapped. The 'dreadnought' stock although outwardly similar would need considerable alteration to run with the T stock as it was locomotive hauled. The best we could hope for would be for sufficient motors and equipment to be found to power one car with the other car as a trailer and operate it as a 2-car EMU. I would be willing to be one of the sponsors of these cars if a suitable plan clan be drawn up, but the first and most important issue will be safe and secure storage preferably under cover.
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Post by brigham on Jun 11, 2014 13:30:23 GMT
You would have to cable the dreadnoughts to form what in North Eastern parlance is called a 'control set', although I don't think that would be prohibitive. One of the cars could then run as a Driving Trailer, with a MetroVick at the other end.
How many Dreadnoughts can be found in serviceable condition? I spotted some MET coaches in TV's 'Poirot' a while back, the camera carefully keeping the round top of the door out of shot, so they must be still around.
It wouldn't be necessary to fit the original spec. running gear, at least not initially. Ex-SR gear could no doubt be adapted as a stop-gap measure. Many a pre-war Morris or Wolseley has survived with a Minor 1000 engine and 'box dropped in, (and arguably been a better car for it, although I couldn't possibly comment).
It isn't a great deal of money. We're not trying to re-create a 5BEL. Storage is probably going to be the major consideration.
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metman
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Post by metman on Jun 11, 2014 14:35:23 GMT
There are three dreadnought in operational condition one is a brake coach. The T stock cars have side buffers now so could be coupled to the cars as long as they had vacuum brakes. Storage is a big factor in this as stated. Totally agree.
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