Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 1, 2014 19:15:14 GMT
Hi, I was wondering if the Met could use Farringdon (crossover to the west/towards King's Cross) and/or Liverpool Street (crossover to the west/towards Moorgate) to reverse?
The reason I'm asking is that the S8s are very long, much too long to be able to use either without having to shunt forward beyond the platform or continue to the next station. For example, reversing east to west at Farringdon would require shunting forward and stopping the front of the train well beyond the head wall to make sure the rear of the train (soon to be the front when the driver changes ends) is in rear of the wrong road starter. Again west to east would require the train presumably to carry on to Barbican. Now, all of this would, I would have thought, have counted out Liverpool Street and Farringdon as potential locations for reversing, but a similar faff would be needed for the S7s as well (although they are obviously shorter). I have seen stopping diamonds for the S7 around Farringdon, but I haven't personally spied any for the S8.
So, does that mean that the Met can't use these locations these days because it's just not worth the fuss, or could they merely do the same as the S7s, but obviously stopping at a different point?
|
|
|
|
Post by superteacher on May 1, 2014 19:38:03 GMT
The train would have to trip past be station starter, which would then require the signals to be reset. The driver changes end and then waits for the wrong road signal to clear. The move is only attempted when there is little other alternative! Are the crossovers at Farringdon and Liverpool Street to be retained after the SSL resignalling, because now even the S7's cant't do the move without drawing past the starting signal.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 1, 2014 19:46:22 GMT
Are the crossovers at Farringdon and Liverpool Street to be retained after the SSL resignalling, because now even the S7's cant't do the move without drawing past the starting signal. I would imagine so. Not that I know the answer of course, but it would seem worthwhile keeping them as, even if, for example, east to west at Farringdon isn't worth the effort, west to east and ECS to Barbican would be easy enough to carry out in the case of problems at King's Cross, or engineering work at King's Cross (although obviously you'd have nothing from Farringdon eastbound in that case). |
|
metman
Global Moderator
5056 05/12/1961-23/04/2012 RIP
Posts: 7,400
|
Post by metman on May 1, 2014 21:59:44 GMT
Liverpool Street reversers can also continue empty to Aldgate to reverse. This was the case in 2007 before the line was fully open to Aldgate after the bombings.
There was a Farringdon destination on the A stock blind too but I'm sure it got little use.
|
|
Rich32
Staff Emeritus
Posts: 1,506 
|
Post by Rich32 on May 2, 2014 1:30:28 GMT
Farringdon is used regularly first thing in the morning as an empty rusty rail move, but in normal service isn't, as it would clog up both lines for far too long.
|
|
|
|
Post by uzairjubilee on May 2, 2014 17:28:34 GMT
The crossovers at Farringdon and Liverpool Street are not going to be retained after the SSL resignalling.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 2, 2014 17:31:53 GMT
The crossovers at Farringdon and Liverpool Street are not going to be retained after the SSL resignalling. Thanks for the info  I suppose it's all change regarding reversing facilities. If we do end up with the widened-lines 'mega siding' I don't suppose crossovers at Farringdon and Liverpool Street will be worth it. |
|
|
|
Post by londonstuff on May 2, 2014 19:44:53 GMT
The Liverpool Street one is simply a PITA, the same as the bay platform - it's essentially going in the wrong direction. This was the view of the bay platform several years ago, blocked off behind the metal walls. Apparently because of Crossrail work this view isn't even possible now... 
Looking towards Liverpool Street bay platform by londonstuff, on Flickr |
|
rincew1nd
Administrator
Junior Under-wizzard of quiz
Posts: 10,225
|
Post by rincew1nd on May 2, 2014 20:20:07 GMT
This was the view of the bay platform several years ago, blocked off behind the metal walls. Apparently because of Crossrail work this view isn't even possible now... Indeed, compare this with Chris W 's picture from the back cab of the C Stock Explorer Tour:  IMG_6053 by Chris W 72, on Flickr. The signal box can ben seen on the left of both pictures. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 2, 2014 20:39:35 GMT
The Liverpool Street one is simply a PITA Well, if it weren't for the location and if it were sited a little bit closer to Moorgate (so that S7s would stop in platform 1 in rear of it) I think it'd still be useful for truncating the Hammersmith & City and the Circle (as, presumably, it used to be) and for short-tripping trains on them both. Obviously one could say - aha but the Hammersmith & City has Moorgate, Aldgate East and Whitechapel for the purpose and the Circle has Moorgate too and it has Aldgate and Tower Hill (although Tower Hill probably shouldn't be included as I was thinking of Hammersmith - Liverpool Street originally, in which case the crossover is facing the right way). Thing is, though, if there's a problem in the Aldgate area all options but Moorgate are now out (for going back to Hammersmith, ignore Tower Hill), which has to cope with trains from all three lines (Metropolitan too). As well as that, Aldgate East is a nuisance for reversing east to west, Whitechapel and Tower Hill would need to cope with the District and Tower Hill is no good at all for outer rail to inner rail/west to east and Aldgate would need to take the Met and I don't think you can reverse off the Circle line platforms. So, notwithstanding whatever might happen to the old widened lines between Moorgate and Farringdon, I'd still say the reversing facilities at Liverpool Street will be a loss. This is particularly true because Liverpool Street tube obviously provides useful interchange with the Central (which can get you back on the Hammersmith & City at Mile End as well) and allows you to reach the major mainline station. As such, nothing east of Moorgate is a lot more of an inconvenience than nothing east of Liverpool Street. But then maybe it's just my bias, since I like complex track layouts and signalling etc. what could be less fun than two tracks running parallel from end to end  ? Still, I'm not sure how wise London Underground have been historically in lifting quite a lot of useful track, reducing flexibility (e.g. as dear District Dave himself mentioned the removal of the crossover allowing access to platform 1 at Earl's Court from the Wimbledon branch). |
|
|
|
Post by crusty54 on May 2, 2014 20:55:16 GMT
The H&C does not have a reversing facility at Whitechapel nowadays.
West Ham is the nearest after Aldgate East,
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 2, 2014 20:59:41 GMT
The H&C does not have a reversing facility at Whitechapel nowadays. West Ham is the nearest after Aldgate East, Hmmm, I'm fairly sure there're still two crossovers, one to the west and one to the east, aren't there? Either that or I'm seeing things when I go past Perhaps my obsession with point work has reached a new height!  |
|
|
|
Post by Dstock7080 on May 2, 2014 21:22:16 GMT
Hmmm, I'm fairly sure there're still two crossovers, one to the west and one to the east, aren't there? Either that or I'm seeing things when I go past Perhaps my obsession with point work has reached a new height! Indeed it is possible to reverse from the EB platform or shunt ahead into the tunnel, to allow a following train access to the platform. |
|
|
|
Post by superteacher on May 2, 2014 23:22:24 GMT
The H&C does not have a reversing facility at Whitechapel nowadays. West Ham is the nearest after Aldgate East, Don't forget Bromley By Bow. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 3, 2014 12:22:17 GMT
Pardon my intrusion in a conversation between people who clearly know what they are talking about, but I've seen a LURS article circa 2011 which describes a whole bunch of planned track layout changes across the network. The article is called "SSR upgrade on track" if you want to search the web for it, but briefly, it mentions removal of the trailing crossovers at LSt & Moorgate to be replaced with a scissor crossover between the two.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 3, 2014 14:43:15 GMT
Pardon my intrusion in a conversation between people who clearly know what they are talking about, but I've seen a LURS article circa 2011 which describes a whole bunch of planned track layout changes across the network. The article is called "SSR upgrade on track" if you want to search the web for it, but briefly, it mentions removal of the trailing crossovers at LSt & Moorgate to be replaced with a scissor crossover between the two. Now that, I think, would be quite a good idea |
|
|
|
Post by uzairjubilee on May 3, 2014 22:01:39 GMT
Also, the crossover east of KGX is to be removed and replaced with a scissors crossover west of the station.
|
|
I suppose it's all change regarding reversing facilities. If we do end up with the widened-lines 'mega siding' I don't suppose crossovers at Farringdon and Liverpool Street will be worth it.
? Still, I'm not sure how wise London Underground have been historically in lifting quite a lot of useful track, reducing flexibility (e.g. 
