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Post by whistlekiller2000 on Jul 27, 2014 19:54:08 GMT
Any thoughts on how the new Overground in-car maps will be dealt with following the absorption of a few of the east London NR services next year? If they do manage to procure compatible stock with the existing system it could be messy!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2014 19:58:10 GMT
Maybe two maps like on the S stock?
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Post by bicbasher on Jul 27, 2014 20:18:48 GMT
I think we'll see two maps as well. One for the ex Silverlink metro/ELL and the other one for the West Anglia services + Romford to Upminster.
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Post by crusty54 on Jul 28, 2014 18:05:58 GMT
The services are to be worked by the existing trains in 2015 which have no space for route maps.
The new trains may not be interchangeable with the existing Overground trains so a standalone map would be sufficient.
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Antje
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Post by Antje on Aug 12, 2014 15:55:22 GMT
They will have to start formally identifying routes with names or numbers if they are going to keep track of which Overground route is which: the network will be overtaking the S-tog by number of routes.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2014 7:09:55 GMT
They will have to start formally identifying routes with names or numbers if they are going to keep track of which Overground route is which: the network will be overtaking the S-tog by number of routes. Route numbering on the UK railway is a game played only by the Southern Railway (1923-48) and its successors AFAIK. At least for the travelling puvlic.
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Post by superteacher on Aug 13, 2014 7:27:59 GMT
The Overground system is already too complicated to be shown as one line. They will surely have to start using route names and numbers before too long.
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Aug 13, 2014 8:12:39 GMT
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Post by Dstock7080 on Aug 13, 2014 8:12:39 GMT
For the purposes of pocket timetable use, the lines already have identification numbers: 1. Richmond/Clapham junction to Stratford 2. Watford Junction-Euston 3. Gospel Oak-Barking 4. Highbury & Islington-West Croydon/Clapham Junction
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2014 8:27:46 GMT
At least the Romford to Upminster line (known at least by older members of our community as "The Push and Pull") only has three stations. There have been proposals for two more which would benefit a number of possible passengers. (Can't stand the word beginning Cus meaning passengers.)
John (soon be 78).
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Post by theblackferret on Aug 13, 2014 9:02:44 GMT
At least the Romford to Upminster line (known at least by older members of our community as "The Push and Pull") only has three stations. There have been proposals for two more which would benefit a number of possible passengers. (Can't stand the word beginning Cus meaning passengers.) John (soon be 78). No doubt platforms will be redesignated cus***** interfaces, and a satisfactory solution on carriage maps will be deemed a cus***** enhancement experience, along with a decent cuppa in the station buffet and having staff around, instead of all being standard practice we should expect.
I'm sure they will indeed number the new routes and then, if the stock has luggage spaces, panels for each different route might appear on the wall beside these, or an overview map on one side, with a different route map on the other side of each carriage.
And if they don't have luggage spaces, there may not be any information panels.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2014 14:53:42 GMT
They will have to start formally identifying routes with names or numbers if they are going to keep track of which Overground route is which: the network will be overtaking the S-tog by number of routes. They could always go back to the old class 501 headcodes and extend the system to cover the rest of the network.
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Post by metrailway on Aug 13, 2014 15:00:10 GMT
At least the Romford to Upminster line (known at least by older members of our community as "The Push and Pull") only has three stations. There have been proposals for two more which would benefit a number of possible passengers. (Can't stand the word beginning Cus meaning passengers.) John (soon be 78). No doubt platforms will be redesignated cus***** interfaces, and a satisfactory solution on carriage maps will be deemed a cus***** enhancement experience, along with a decent cuppa in the station buffet and having staff around, instead of all being standard practice we should expect.
NHS management now call patients "service users"... Luckily most doctors and nurses ignore such idiotic language.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2014 15:18:04 GMT
I am determined to remain a passenger as long as I can wave my Travel Card at the appropriate device(s). John
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Post by theblackferret on Aug 13, 2014 15:39:53 GMT
And I very much hope that will remain the case, when we finally see how they deal with non-LCD hard copy cus***** travel-zone directional indicators in-car maps.
I expect they're working on it as we speak, under a project name no-one else will understand.
Still, if at least WE know where we're going anyway, we can help the befuddled if said project doesn't quite materialise as it ought to.
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Post by rincew1nd on Aug 13, 2014 18:58:04 GMT
NHS management now call patients "service users"... Luckily most doctors and nurses ignore such idiotic language. I am in an awkward position with regards this, I have customers (their trade pays my wages) but I also have patients (people requiring medicines); some people are only customers (if you only want to buy a packet of baby wipes you're a customer) but all of my patients are customers. I have a number of patients who are receiving treatment for ongoing mental health problems, they aren't necessarily unwell, and they make use of the services available from my Pharmacy, and I generally refer to this group of people as "clients". I don't really like the term "service users", but unfortunately it has always been the way that anyone being treated by the NHS is making use of a service. The service may be provided by a health trust or a contractor, contractors are numerous; remember your GP is an NHS contractor!
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Post by theblackferret on Aug 13, 2014 19:53:32 GMT
NHS management now call patients "service users"... Luckily most doctors and nurses ignore such idiotic language. I am in an awkward position with regards this, I have customers (their trade pays my wages) but I also have patients (people requiring medicines); some people are only customers (if you only want to buy a packet of baby wipes you're a customer) but all of my patients are customers. I have a number of patients who are receiving treatment for ongoing mental health problems, they aren't necessarily unwell, and they make use of the services available from my Pharmacy, and I generally refer to this group of people as "clients". I don't really like the term "service users", but unfortunately it has always been the way that anyone being treated by the NHS is making use of a service. The service may be provided by a health trust or a contractor, contractors are numerous; remember your GP is an NHS contractor! Yes, I can see your position is a bit different. Even so, I'm very glad the NHS didn't carry out any customer satisfaction surveys at any stage during my wife's breast cancer operations/chemotherapy/radiotherapy etc, otherwise even her dear sweet self might have used language that I usually do!
Luckily, I knew we would be OK, as her plastic surgeon/consultant laughed at my jokes when we first met him! One thing to humour the patient, quite another to humour her husband, I reckon.
As far as railways go, passengers will always be the word for me, principally because customer implies you choose to use this service, and I wonder what percentage have a choice?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2014 19:58:12 GMT
Yes, I can see your position is a bit different. Even so, I'm very glad the NHS didn't carry out any customer satisfaction surveys at any stage during my wife's breast cancer operations/chemotherapy/radiotherapy etc, otherwise even her dear sweet self might have used language that I usually do! I do hope your wife is okay!
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Post by theblackferret on Aug 13, 2014 20:36:45 GMT
Thank you, yes.
All that was in 2007/8 and she's officially been in remission since last October.
Still not a customer service satisfaction survey in sight, either!
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Post by superteacher on Aug 13, 2014 21:44:43 GMT
I detest the term "customer" when used in place of passenger.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2014 10:29:12 GMT
I, as I have said earlier in the thread, detest customer too. Even more so as with what I call an Old Fogie's Travel Card I don't have to pay, well I am nearly 78, so how can I be a customer anyway?
There was a programme on TV last night about railways, and they were referring to their passengers as passengers, so we are not alone.
Passengers stand and be counted!!!!
John
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Post by theblackferret on Aug 14, 2014 15:24:19 GMT
I've started a new thread on the Other LU & TfL matters board on this topic of the 'c' word, simply called Passengers or not? as I'm conscious(which is in itself unusual!) we've inadvertently shunted whistlekiller2000's question into the goods sidings, for which many apologies.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2014 15:51:21 GMT
1) When the new 4-car LO rolling stock is delivered it will be confined to the Gospel Oak-Barking (GOB) and West Anglia/Romford lines. Whilst I have not yet seen the draft car-line diagrams, I am assuming that the trains will be interchangeable in service, so the car-line diagrams will presumably only have those lines on them. 2) It is probable that the GOB will then be dropped from the car-line diagrams displayed in the Class 378s. 3) If (as is rumoured) a further batch of 4-car trains is ordered for the DC line then presumably they will also be interchangeable and the car-line diagrams will be amended accordingly. Here again, the DC line would be dropped from the Class 378 car-line diagrams.
The above is all speculation but is based on a common sense approach, as you would then have two distinct fleets serving two distinct groups of lines.
As regards giving the individual lines identities, I know that TfL are looking at line numbering or line naming or some logical combination of both.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2014 16:25:42 GMT
As regards giving the individual lines identities, I know that TfL are looking at line numbering or line naming or some logical combination of both. Given that the lines already have names, it shouldn't be too hard. Admittedly, there is a potential issue with the WLL, where, of course, half of the trains then merge with the NLL and run to Stratford. Other than that, though.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Aug 17, 2014 17:09:54 GMT
As regards giving the individual lines identities, I know that TfL are looking at line numbering or line naming or some logical combination of both. Given that the lines already have names, it shouldn't be too hard. Admittedly, there is a potential issue with the WLL, where, of course, half of the trains then merge with the NLL and run to Stratford. Other than that, though. They do have names, but a North London Line and an East London Line which both serve SW11(and one of which serves Richmond!) is slightly odd - not to mention potential confusion of the former with the Northern Line. Harlequin never really caught on. I rather fancy Brunel for the group of lines running through the Thames Tunnel, premier in honour of the LNWR's soubriquet for Euston-Watford, and E&WID&BJR for the NLL/WLL (no, seriously - how about Olympic as it serves the former Olympic park and Olympia? Or maybe resurrect "Mr Punch's Railway" for the WLL? The West Anglia group could be named after the Lea Valley. The Goblin is as good a name as any - more memorable than T&HJR anyway!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2014 17:32:41 GMT
I would love to see Goblin become official, or even if it was officially referred to on maps etc. as the Gospel Oak to Barking line, such that Goblin would become semi-official
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Post by Chris M on Aug 17, 2014 20:38:33 GMT
not to mention potential confusion of the former with the Northern Line. And the Northern City Line at Highbury and Islington.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2014 21:26:02 GMT
Assuming the lines are given names (numbers are almost a certainty) then the names will be meaningless inventions! However, I more expect the naming will style will be something like Line 1 Stratford to Richmond/Clapham Junction Line 2 Gospel Oak to Barking, etc. In other words what we have now plus a number. In fact if you look on the front cover of the current 4 timetable booklets thats just what you have now, a booklet number 1-4 plus the route description. I think the rather more elegant line names like NLL and WLL etc are officially dead. Pity but there it is.
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Post by theblackferret on Aug 17, 2014 22:01:41 GMT
I think the problem on names or numbers is, can you get a marketable name from the history and layout of a line?
Think back to when all the Tube lines were put under separate line management; they all came with an established name, identity, etc. Except for The Jubilee & I don't think Liz would have been enamoured with that one being renamed.
LOL has and will be taking over some that fit into that category & others that just don't at all. For a start, it hasn't always been Gospel Oak <==> Barking, only since 1981, and if they perpetrated Silver Link in a name, then they would have to get names for the others.
Suspect it will be number 5 and number 6 routes, and that's how they will be displayed in carriages.
The only other possibility would be to rename everything in terms of links, but I personally think that could be more awkward than ELL, WLL etc.
One last point-do you need a name to hang on to long-established services that people are using in good numbers? It was different when they reopened the Met Widened Lines in 1987, because those cross-London services hadn't been operative for 70+ years, hence the birth of Thameslink.
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Post by abe on Aug 30, 2014 8:38:40 GMT
They do have names, but a North London Line and an East London Line which both serve SW11(and one of which serves Richmond!) is slightly odd - not to mention potential confusion of the former with the Northern Line. Harlequin never really caught on. Harlequin was the name given to the Euston - Watford line whilst it was operated by BR in the 1980s. Apparently the naming of the large shopping centre at Watford was coincidence; I have read somewhere that the name for the line was contrived from it serving Harlesden and Queen's Park... if they perpetrated Silver Link in a name, then they would have to get names for the others. Silverlink was never a line name, just the name of the first franchise operator who ran the North London Line, West London Line, and Watford DC (Harlequin) line.
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Post by crusty54 on Aug 31, 2014 11:02:57 GMT
Line numbers seem to work well on Tramlink but these can easily be displayed on the trams.
Not so easy on the Overground (and DLR)
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