Beggars on the Tube

[Deleted]

I almost put this in the rant area until I realised that was a bit cruel..  

Recently I've twice been approached by people placing a packet of tissues next to me asking for a £1 for them to help their kids (one near Ravenscourt Park, the other albeit on SWT near Wandsworth).  A few months ago on the Jubilee line a guy walked between carriages on his quest for lose change which seemed a bit risky.  Although I don't want to appear cold, I don't want to encourage them either as beggars can be intimidating and threatening, particularly towards our non-English speaking brethren. 

I don't want to make a judgement towards beggars on the tube (I have no idea what their circumstances are), but I was wondering how people react to them? Is there a 'right' way? What would TfL want us to do?

[rincew1nd]

I would suggest not giving to them personally, as this would only serve to encourage on-train begging. If you feel compelled to help their cause there are plenty of charities around, who will also be able to claim money from the government which a beggar on the tube can't do!

[sawb]

I've always been in a dilemma over this when it's happened. Given begging is a contravention of LU byelaws, should I pull the on board alarm or not at the next station? Be interested to know people's thoughts!

[Deleted]

I was on a train to Wembley Park and saw one, I asked the staff at the station if they could do anything but the couldn't, I saw someone who looked like she was 15 doing the tissues today and felt sorry for her.

[jetblast787]

Mar 2, 2015 21:06:23 GMT sawb said:

I've always been in a dilemma over this when it's happened. Given begging is a contravention of LU byelaws, should I pull the on board alarm or not at the next station? Be interested to know people's thoughts!

I would never pull the PEA for something like this unless they are being a danger to themselves or others. The on time performance of the train is more important than a beggar going through the train.

[snoggle]

There are a fair number of "tweets" to the Mayor and TfL complaining about these "tissue sellers". I would expect the BTP to be doing something about this problem as it is gaining a public profile. I am afraid I am very unsympathetic towards any form of begging on the transport network or elsewhere. For those who are genuinely perturbed about the plight of the very poor or homeless then donate to charities or even help out with the charities themselves. It is impossible, in a momentary encounter, to know the circumstances of people who try to sell things on the street or transport network.

[Hassaan]

I've come across several instances in the last month, but never before that, including two in two trains on Saturday! Once it was on the District Line but the rest were on Southeastern, Thameslink, and South West Trains services.

[uzairjubilee]

There is a group of 4 different people who do the tissue begging between Southfields and I think West Brompton on the District line almost every weekday at around 10/11pm. I have texted BTP about it twice. It irritates me because I believe it is just dishonest - 4 different people with the exact same note. Something along the lines of "Sorry to disturb. I have 1 year old child who I need to feed etc etc"

[murph9000]

As harsh as it may seem, I quite strongly believe that it's a very bad thing for anyone to pay in these circumstances. I believe that for every genuine needy case, there's far more professional con artists performing a well rehearsed grift. People falling for the scam causes the scamming to continue.

As for the correct reaction, I would consider it an abuse to use the PEA for this unless there's dangerous, violent, or some other behaviour which constitutes a genuine emergency. It's certainly not correct to treat the PEA as a mechanism to report random byelaw infringements. I recommend a simple firm but neutral and calm "no", escalating to progressively more industrial language if they don't promptly disengage.

If you want to help genuine cases, donate to a bona fide charity, instead of lining the pockets of criminal gangs.

[Antje]

Not worthy of a use of the PEA, but worthy of informing the train operator (if you always use the front car as I do) or station supervisor. They'll thank you for it.

[camperdown9]

A friend who is a vicar was once asked at Victoria station to "lend" a beggar £10 towards the cost of a train ticket. My friend was dressed in full clerical clothes said no. At which point the beggar shouted and screamed at him that he wasn't a man of god etc. Next time it happened my friend said he didn't have any cash but was happy to go to the counter and buy the man a ticket using his credit card. The beggar walked off.

Another friend who is a rector used to get people calling at his house asking for a few pounds so that they could buy bread, milk etc for their starving children. This wasn't once in a while, it was multiple times a night. So rather than giving them money, he started to keep some bread in the freezer and some long life milk in the cupboard. When someone came asking for money for bread or milk he handed them a loaf or a pint of milk. The nightly calls asking for money were soon reduced in number.

My personal view is if you want to help then give some money to someone like Shelter, donate food to your local food bank or offer to buy someone a cup of tea if they ask you for money towards one. Giving money is not a good idea.

[whistlekiller2000]

Mar 4, 2015 8:24:00 GMT camperdown9 said:

A friend who is a vicar was once asked at Victoria station to "lend" a beggar £10 towards the cost of a train ticket. My friend was dressed in full clerical clothes said no. At which point the beggar shouted and screamed at him that he wasn't a man of god etc. Next time it happened my friend said he didn't have any cash but was happy to go to the counter and buy the man a ticket using his credit card. The beggar walked off.

Another friend who is a rector used to get people calling at his house asking for a few pounds so that they could buy bread, milk etc for their starving children. This wasn't once in a while, it was multiple times a night. So rather than giving them money, he started to keep some bread in the freezer and some long life milk in the cupboard. When someone came asking for money for bread or milk he handed them a loaf or a pint of milk. The nightly calls asking for money were soon reduced in number.

My personal view is if you want to help then give some money to someone like Shelter, donate food to your local food bank or offer to buy someone a cup of tea if they ask you for money towards one. Giving money is not a good idea.

I once bought a cup of tea for a bloke asking for "change for a cup of tea". First of all he told me to "**** off" and then, having grudgingly accepted the tea, moaned about "not enough sugar in it you *******". It sort of destroys your goodwill somewhat doesn't it? Now, if he'd said "change for a bag of crack" at least he'd have displayed a degree of honesty......... 

[stuartroy]

I encountered a man asking for money to buy food - I think it was on the Victoria between Oxy Circ and Euston, evening-time post rush hour. A lady nearby gave him a bunch of grapes from her bag, after which he went growling down the carriage, kicked the end panel viciously, and got off at the next stop. He did take the grapes with him, but one sensed that wasn't the kind of food he was hungry for.

[rincew1nd]

Perhaps Doctor Who has it correct when giving out Jelly Babies?

[Alight]

Mar 2, 2015 21:03:28 GMT rincew1nd said:

I would suggest not giving to them personally, as this would only serve to encourage on-train begging. If you feel compelled to help their cause there are plenty of charities around, who will also be able to claim money from the government which a beggar on the tube can't do!

I agree. Plus, let's not forget the automated "please do not encourage their presence" announcements on-board most trains! I had some musicians on the Northern line last night (yes, it really felt like I was on the Paris Metro!) and I just sat their apathetically, staring into space as they came round with the cup... everyone else around me did exactly the same. No disrespect to their circumstances but I really did not choose to be subjected to that rather loud music at that time of night, nor did I like being put in the position where you can't escape from it.

[Chris W]

Begging is not only increasing on the Underground.

I went for a walk around London yesterday lunchtime. I walked past at least 6 'homeless and hungry' beggers, whereas last week there was only 1 or 2. The good weather brings them out onto the streets and probably suggests that they're not all genuinely homeless.

The one thing that does annoy me is the 3 shell game betting scam that has been ongoing on many of the bridges that cross the Thames mainly along tourist routes. A few weeks back I witnessed an altercation/fight break out between the Romanians (that's who the authorities have reliably informed me they originate from) and an Italian family. I happily dialled 999 to report the incident to the Police. Having walked past the groups on numerous occasions they stand out like a sore thumb and its easy to spot how many are involved - usually between 4-6 per game including the players, lookouts and stooges in the audience that somehow win every bet they place.

[Tomcakes]

I was approached a couple of months ago by somebody who asked me if I could spare 10p for a phone call as he had lost his mobile and needed to phone his friend etc etc. I advised him to dial 100 for the Operator and ask for a reverse charge call.

Similarly, somebody asked me for a "quid for a bus fare" last summer, to which I told him that cash was no longer accepted on buses.

On both occasions, an allegation of my parent's marital status in the 1980s was made.

[whistlekiller2000]

Mar 28, 2015 13:46:42 GMT Tomcakes said:

On both occasions, an allegation of my parent's marital status in the 1980s was made.

I applaud your easy going manner Tom. I'm afraid I'd have decked the ****er 

[theblackferret]

I always give, being a 'there but for the grace of God' sort of person, despite being an agnostic!!

Mind you, being a smoker & therefore making a bee-line for off-station smoking areas, requests are usually for a fag only & the price of a cuppa sometimes-I usually give £2, as they are a coin that gets on my wick-being neither one thing nor the other.

I have actually, thinking about it, never been approached on the Tube or platforms, just on the way in or out & never ever by aggressive beggars.

Nor by foreigners, unless you count Scots as such!

[carltona]

Mar 28, 2015 20:33:50 GMT theblackferret said:

I always give, being a 'there but for the grace of God' sort of person, despite being an agnostic!!

Mind you, being a smoker & therefore making a bee-line for off-station smoking areas, requests are usually for a fag only & the price of a cuppa sometimes-I usually give £2, as they are a coin that gets on my wick-being neither one thing nor the other.

That's up to you of course, but there's every chance some of the beggars have more money than you. And some of the "homeless" live in a better house than a lot of other people.

I was in Marks & Spencer in Gerrards Cross when several of the local Big Issue sellers parked their new 4WD outside and came in to buy food on their way to a wedding. They were all dressed far better than most of the locals with gold necklaces, fur collared coats and expensive boots etc.

[Alight]

Mar 28, 2015 13:46:42 GMT Tomcakes said:

I was approached a couple of months ago by somebody who asked me if I could spare 10p for a phone call as he had lost his mobile and needed to phone his friend etc etc. I advised him to dial 100 for the Operator and ask for a reverse charge call.

Similarly, somebody asked me for a "quid for a bus fare" last summer, to which I told him that cash was no longer accepted on buses.

On both occasions, an allegation of my parent's marital status in the 1980s was made.

The precise amounts always annoy me e.g. a beggar on-board one of the new 'RM' buses who required '47p' for a bacon sandwich... I can't think of anywhere in London that sells bacon sandwiches for that precise figure and even if they did it wouldn't be as specific as the number 47! In fact, he would have spent more on his bus fare in the first place!

It was only the other day when I was waiting for a friend outside Earlsfield railway station that a man kept pestering me for £2 without specifying why it had to be £2; I wouldn't have minded so much if it was a voluntary contribution. Similarly, as I was interchanging one day between White City and Wood Lane, a man started following me between the two (obviously waiting to target out-of-station interchangers) asking me for a five pound note and when I told him that I didn't have any cash on me (which was genuinely the case) he suggested we take a detour to a cash machine...

[Deleted]

Mar 27, 2015 12:05:52 GMT Chris W said:

Begging is not only increasing on the Underground.

I went for a walk around London yesterday lunchtime. I walked past at least 6 'homeless and hungry' beggers, whereas last week there was only 1 or 2. The good weather brings them out onto the streets and probably suggests that they're not all genuinely homeless.

The one thing that does annoy me is the 3 shell game betting scam that has been ongoing on many of the bridges that cross the Thames mainly along tourist routes. A few weeks back I witnessed an altercation/fight break out between the Romanians (that's who the authorities have reliably informed me they originate from) and an Italian family. I happily dialled 999 to report the incident to the Police. Having walked past the groups on numerous occasions they stand out like a sore thumb and its easy to spot how many are involved - usually between 4-6 per game including the players, lookouts and stooges in the audience that somehow win every bet they place.

Apparently 25% of the UK's rough sleepers can be found in the Borough of Westminster.  

I wholly agree about those people who hang around on bridges.  I used to work as a researcher for front bench MP (whose name and party shall remain nameless ) and my daily commute involved walking over Westminster Bridge between Parliament and Waterloo (or if I was treating myself, just a jolly on the District line!).  Seeing tourists get conned out of money, often quite aggressively, by criminals dressed as Shrek or Charlie Chaplin wound me right up.  They give such a poor impression of the city.  The 3 shell game can often be worse than just taking a naive tourist's money; they often have people pick-pocketing distracted onlookers so be wary!

A guy approached me on Brick Lane over the weekend asking for money, to his credit, for a beer.  

(Sorry, this has gone bit off topic!)