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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2015 20:58:58 GMT
Now that this will one under TFLs ownership in May do you think they will rename it to eliminate any confusion with Bethnal Green LU station. Didn't someone once call it Bethnal Green Viaduct on a map they made? Speaking of which have the May 2015 maps been released yet?
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Post by stapler on Mar 21, 2015 21:42:36 GMT
They should really rename *both* the Central Line AND the ex GE stations. Suffix "St John's" and "Three Colts Lane" respectively perhaps?
Renaming of stations isn't always helpful, however. When Walthamstow T&FGJR had "Queens Rd" added in 1968, that was plain daft, as it isn't in Queens Rd! Now the path is open again, perhaps it should be Walthamstow Central Low Level.
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Post by ashlar on Mar 21, 2015 22:02:16 GMT
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Post by Chris M on Mar 21, 2015 22:06:08 GMT
If they do it like Shepherd's Bush, then the Central Line station will remain unchanged and the NR one have a suffix added (or renamed something like Weavers Fields). Street names are not helpful to non-locals unless they are major thoroughfares or something like "High Street".
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Post by snoggle on Mar 22, 2015 11:58:57 GMT
I'm going to be very dull and ask why there is any need to change station names. The two stations at Bethnal Green have existed for decades. They've been on a range of maps for many, many years. We have had duplicated stations for eons and people have generally coped with this.
The fact is that station renaming can cost a small fortunte because of the impact on documentation, publicity, signalling systems, ticketing systems etc. It's obviously not impossible to change names but the timing has to be co-ordinated with other plans where the cost impact can be minimised. I am not in favour of changing names just for the sake of it when the money could be better spent on other things.
Given all the electronic info many people have in their hands these days (via smartphones / tablets) do we really need to be worried about people finding they've gone to the "wrong" station and having a short walk to get to the "right" one? Do we really need to change things for a minority of people who get "confused" by the tube map and who don't do a double check?
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Post by bicbasher on Mar 22, 2015 12:13:49 GMT
More importantly is that Bethnal Green NR and Whitechapel should be an OSI (as mentioned elsewhere) once it becomes part of the Overground network.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2015 17:37:51 GMT
Ha can I claim the tourist card?! True it would cost but surely it would be good to do now given all the signage on the LO station and maps will have to change anyway when they all get rebranded to overground?
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Post by snoggle on Mar 22, 2015 18:55:02 GMT
Ha can I claim the tourist card?! True it would cost but surely it would be good to do now given all the signage on the LO station and maps will have to change anyway when they all get rebranded to overground? And how many tourists do we imagine travel to Bethnal Green? I mean really? Possibly a few going to the Museum of Childhood or visting a pie and mash shop on Bethnal Green road. It is not just a case of what happens at Bethnal Green itself but also in a load of other places across the country and on endless masses of documentation and systems. Local road and pedestrian signs will need changing, all maps covering the area will have to be changed etc etc. Documents used by the emergency services will all have to be changed to reflect different names etc. It is not something that should be done lightly and for no compelling reason. I have yet to read anything that provides the compelling reason - lots of "people might be confused when both stns are on the tube map" but no view about how many people may be confused. |
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Post by John Tuthill on Mar 22, 2015 19:13:31 GMT
Ha can I claim the tourist card?! True it would cost but surely it would be good to do now given all the signage on the LO station and maps will have to change anyway when they all get rebranded to overground? ? I mean really? Possibly a few going to the Museum of Childhood or visting a pie and mash shop on Bethnal Green road. It is not just a case of what happens at Bethnal Green itself but also in a load of other places across the country and on endless masses of documentation and systems. Local road and pedestrian signs will need changing, all maps covering the area will have to be changed etc etc. Documents used by the emergency services will all have to be changed to reflect different names etc. It is not something that should be done lightly and for no compelling reason. I have yet to read anything that provides the compelling reason - lots of "people might be confused when both stns are on the tube map" but no view about how many people may be confused. Many years ago I knew a girl whose father was a conductor out of BW on the 25s when it ran to Victoria. He would smile when he told me the number of American tourists staying at Claridge's who boarded his bus and asked him 'Do you go to Shakespear's home?' He politely pointed out that 'STRATFORD' was not the one they were looking for.  |
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Post by longhedge on Mar 22, 2015 20:32:06 GMT
And how many tourists do we imagine travel to Bethnal Green? I mean really? Possibly a few going to the Museum of Childhood or visting a pie and mash shop on Bethnal Green road. It is not just a case of what happens at Bethnal Green itself but also in a load of other places across the country and on endless masses of documentation and systems. Local road and pedestrian signs will need changing, all maps covering the area will have to be changed etc etc. Documents used by the emergency services will all have to be changed to reflect different names etc. It is not something that should be done lightly and for no compelling reason. I have yet to read anything that provides the compelling reason - lots of "people might be confused when both stns are on the tube map" but no view about how many people may be confused. Many years ago I knew a girl whose father was a conductor out of BW on the 25s when it ran to Victoria. He would smile when he told me the number of American tourists staying at Claridge's who boarded his bus and asked him 'Do you go to Shakespear's home?' He politely pointed out that 'STRATFORD' was not the one they were looking for. |
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Post by longhedge on Mar 22, 2015 20:35:27 GMT
1)Re the `wrong` Stratford. Overground trains from Clapham Junction Platform 1 are announced as going to Stratford London, as people have been confused.
2) About 20 years ago, I was told about a shoe shop which sold size 13 shoes. I was informed `you cannot miss it`, just go to Bethnal Green station. Needless to say, I had forgotten how far apart the two stations are, and went to the wrong station!!
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Post by stapler on Mar 22, 2015 22:36:51 GMT
Snoggle - you are well behind the times. There are now two big hotels, one cheap, one fiendishly expensive, at BG. Have a look at the Tripadvisor London Forum, and you'll be convinced!
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Post by snoggle on Mar 23, 2015 9:54:37 GMT
Snoggle - you are well behind the times. There are now two big hotels, one cheap, one fiendishly expensive, at BG. Have a look at the Tripadvisor London Forum, and you'll be convinced! Well the cheap one is half between the two stations so either will do. The expensive one is between Cambridge Heath and BG Tube. I still don't see the need for a renaming of Bethnal Green NR. Are we really saying that tourists are so congenitally stupid that they can't work out the difference even accepting that a fair proportion will probably turn up in a cab anyway? |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2015 12:48:28 GMT
Bethnal Green LU being my station for the past nine years you'd be surprised how many tourists you see there nowadays. Especially with Hackney/London Fields/Broadway Market appearing in travel guides in recent years. It's not the type of tourists that would visit Buckingham Palace or the National Gallery, rather the younger tourists who are looking for a piece of "Berlin" in London. Art galleries, farmers markets, musical instrument shops, organic foods etc.
The station is also heavily used by people not familiar with the area during all the festivals in Victoria Park throughout the summer. BG is the advised tube station for Victoria Park activity such as LoveBox, Field Day, Citadel, Winterville etc. They usually have to put up special signs around the station to direct the crowds in the right direction of the park.
As for the naming issue. I can imagine it being an issue having two distinct stations with the same name, especially since the rise of electronic tools. From a map it might seem logical which one of the two stations you need. However, when you need to choose the station from a drop down box on your phone it's not so clear which "Bethnal Green" is the right one. Bearing in mind they had to put a sign up at Abbey Road station to tell the tourists this is not the Abbey Road they were looking for (after they've already trekked all the way to East London) I think these sort of confusions are best prevented.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2015 13:11:32 GMT
They should really rename *both* the Central Line AND the ex GE stations. Suffix "St John's" and "Three Colts Lane" respectively perhaps? Renaming of stations isn't always helpful, however. When Walthamstow T&FGJR had "Queens Rd" added in 1968, that was plain daft, as it isn't in Queens Rd! Now the path is open again, perhaps it should be Walthamstow Central Low Level. If they do it like Shepherd's Bush, then the Central Line station will remain unchanged and the NR one have a suffix added (or renamed something like Weavers Fields). Street names are not helpful to non-locals unless they are major thoroughfares or something like "High Street". I'm not sure Three Colts Lane and St John's are necessarily the best names. I have lived a few minutes walk from Bethnal Green LU for almost a decade and three Colts Lane rings a bell (although I wouldn't be able to say where it is exactly) but St John's doesn't. The name difference would mainly be for the benefit of the people not familiar with the area who won't know either of those two places. I think Weaver's Fields would be a better suggestion, or perhaps "Bethnal Green LO". Considering the already mentioned high cost of renaming a station I would only rename the LO station and not the LU station as well. Renaming the LU station would mean changing the name at considerably more places than if it was only the LO station. The LO station change would coincide with that whole Overgound stretch appearing on maps. Changing the LU station would mean also changing all maps that only show the underground anyway, all Central Line line maps, all references to the station anywhere along the Central Line in the stations and its systems etc. etc. |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Mar 26, 2015 14:07:09 GMT
I'm not sure Three Colts Lane and St John's are necessarily the best names. I have lived a few minutes walk from Bethnal Green LU for almost a decade and three Colts Lane rings a bell (although I wouldn't be able to say where it is exactly) but St John's doesn't.. Surely it doesn't matter that few people know where it is, now - who would have known where Goodge Street was before 1908? St Johns would not be a Good Plan though: there is already a station of that name about three miles away, and another (suffixed "Wood") a little bit further. |
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Post by stapler on Mar 27, 2015 10:17:18 GMT
St John's is the name of the parish church just by the Central Line station entrance
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2015 15:56:05 GMT
I'm not sure Three Colts Lane and St John's are necessarily the best names. I have lived a few minutes walk from Bethnal Green LU for almost a decade and three Colts Lane rings a bell (although I wouldn't be able to say where it is exactly) but St John's doesn't.. Surely it doesn't matter that few people know where it is, now - who would have known where Goodge Street was before 1908? St Johns would not be a Good Plan though: there is already a station of that name about three miles away, and another (suffixed "Wood") a little bit further. Fair points. If we had to choose a street name I’d say Cambridge Heath makes more sense. But then, as I mentioned earlier, I don’t think this station would need a name change too. St John's is the name of the parish church just by the Central Line station entrance Ah, I know that church. Didn’t know it was called St John’s though. |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Mar 27, 2015 16:17:24 GMT
If we had to choose a street name I’d say Cambridge Heath makes more sense. There is already a station on Cambridge Heath Road - it is called Cambridge Heath, and already causes some confusion with Cambridge itself. |
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Post by stapler on Mar 27, 2015 19:03:23 GMT
Before BG Central Line opened, that corner was always "The Salmon & Ball", so perhaps we should go back to that. And at the same time rename "Roman Rd" to its original name of Green Street!
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Post by Chris M on Mar 27, 2015 22:13:14 GMT
Green Street is a prominent street not far away in West Ham.
"The Salmon & Ball" is even more cryptic than the current street names and not good for the same reasons.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2015 22:33:48 GMT
If we had to choose a street name I’d say Cambridge Heath makes more sense. There is already a station on Cambridge Heath Road - it is called Cambridge Heath, and already causes some confusion with Cambridge itself. I know. I intended it to read "Bethnal Green Cambridge Heath". And I agree with Chris, calling it Salmon & Ball doesn't solve the problem. But anyway, I don't think renaming this station is a good idea for financial reasons. All they need to rename is the Overground station if you ask me. |
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Post by Rich32 on May 2, 2015 8:06:07 GMT
The thread 'drift' regarding various re-siting/rebuilding of Bethnal Green has been moved here as the OP is discussing re-naming.
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Post by astockfan101 on May 10, 2015 13:18:27 GMT
Bethnal Green overground used to be called Bethnal green junction until the 1940's so why not bring back the old name?
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Post by Chris M on May 10, 2015 21:53:09 GMT
Possibly because it would imply that there were multiple routes available from the station, which there hasn't been since the Stratford line platforms were closed.
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Post by longhedge on May 11, 2015 8:12:23 GMT
Possibly because it would imply that there were multiple routes available from the station, which there hasn't been since the Stratford line platforms were closed. Just some thoughts, as someone who did go to the `wrong` station 10 years ago!! 1) I hear you about lack of multiple routes, but we do have Dalston Junction station, with no junction! I concede the old station name did rename the local community around the station, so it may not be a cogent argument. 2) Why not rename it Bethnal Green Overground? Just a thought.... We have City Thameslink etc. |
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Post by norbitonflyer on May 11, 2015 9:28:29 GMT
Possibly because it would imply that there were multiple routes available from the station, which there hasn't been since the Stratford line platforms were closed. There are other "Junction" stations with no branches - Dalston and Yeovil for example |
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Post by peterc on May 11, 2015 11:13:54 GMT
Far too sensible!
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Post by longhedge on May 11, 2015 12:44:58 GMT
Possibly because it would imply that there were multiple routes available from the station, which there hasn't been since the Stratford line platforms were closed. There are other "Junction" stations with no branches - Dalston and Yeovil for example South West Trains are proposing to re-instate a service between Yeovil Junction and Pen Mill this December, so Yeovil will be a junction for passenger trains again. |
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Post by norbitonflyer on May 11, 2015 15:06:26 GMT
South West Trains are proposing to re-instate a service between Yeovil Junction and Pen Mill this December, so Yeovil will be a junction for passenger trains again. Indeed - both Yeovil stations will become junctions! Historically, many "Junction" names were some distance from the eponymous town - being the junction for the branch serving that town. "Road" (as in Lyndhust, Bodmin or Edgware, is another warning sign!) See Tiverton Junction (now Tiverton Parkway), Sidmouth Junction (now Feniton), Stourbridge Junction, Yeovil Junction etc. Some such junctions did not actually have an associated station, e.g Bromley Junction, in Norwood, where the Beckenham junction branch, originally the connection to the East Kent Railway (later LCDR), branches off the LBSCR's West End of London & Crystal Palace Railway). Clapham Junction has only recently had a service to Clapham proper restored in 2012, after a gap of nearly a hundred years. |
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