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Post by dazz285 on Mar 31, 2015 16:22:22 GMT
Just thought I'd let everyone know that as of yesterday 30-03-15 Lorol are night testing a 5 car on the NLL/WLL & D.C.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2015 17:22:51 GMT
I was Willesden Low Level a few weeks ago the bay platform appears not to be long enough for a 5 car train, so will it still be required?
XF
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Post by longhedge on Mar 31, 2015 18:20:02 GMT
I was Willesden Low Level a few weeks ago the bay platform appears not to be long enough for a 5 car train, so will it still be required? XF The platform has been extended at the Eastern end. I was there a couple of weeks ago taking a requested photograph for London Railway Record magazine.
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Post by dazz285 on Mar 31, 2015 19:25:59 GMT
All platform extensions are nearly complete now.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2015 21:46:25 GMT
All platform extensions are nearly complete now. Thanks, It just didn't appear long enough!
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Post by longhedge on Apr 1, 2015 12:10:46 GMT
All platform extensions are nearly complete now. Thanks, It just didn't appear long enough! I have looked at my photo taken 13 March... the platform was fully complete on this day. By counting the pavement stones.. I think your observation is completely correct. The extension looks to be slightly less than 20 meters long - the approximate length on a Class 378. This terminal platform I believe goes back to 1915 when the new lines opened here. It therefore by chance did not need a full one car extension top take 5 cars. Trust my observation is helpful.
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Post by snoggle on Apr 1, 2015 12:23:18 GMT
All platform extensions are nearly complete now. Really? I've not been along the NLL for a while so am not up to date. Is that just the construction work being done or also the fitting out with lighting, signage, seats etc? Any idea when the first 5 car NLL trains will run?
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Post by dazz285 on Apr 1, 2015 15:33:55 GMT
no set date for first 5 car as of yet but there seems to be a few dual voltage ones already converted waiting at New Cross, so shouldn't be too long. All platform extensions would have had new lighting & signage as standard but some are on the minimum width so no seats etc. Haven't been over the line for a week or so so cannot comment on what is left to be finished but all stations have been extended to the required length, hence the testing, and it should just be finishing touches ie lights, signs, seats & surfaces etc
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2015 19:34:48 GMT
Thanks, It just didn't appear long enough! I have looked at my photo taken 13 March... the platform was fully complete on this day. By counting the pavement stones.. I think your observation is completely correct. The extension looks to be slightly less than 20 meters long - the approximate length on a Class 378. This terminal platform I believe goes back to 1915 when the new lines opened here. It therefore by chance did not need a full one car extension top take 5 cars. Trust my observation is helpful. I did a similar exercise a few weeks ago when I compared the length of a Class 378 in an adjacent platform. As 5 car class 378's are already using selective door opening on the former East London Lines sections maybe this could be a solution at the Willesden Jct. LL bay platform?
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Post by longhedge on Apr 1, 2015 20:26:09 GMT
I have looked at my photo taken 13 March... the platform was fully complete on this day. By counting the pavement stones.. I think your observation is completely correct. The extension looks to be slightly less than 20 meters long - the approximate length on a Class 378. This terminal platform I believe goes back to 1915 when the new lines opened here. It therefore by chance did not need a full one car extension top take 5 cars. Trust my observation is helpful. I did a similar exercise a few weeks ago when I compared the length of a Class 378 in an adjacent platform. As 5 car class 378's are already using selective door opening on the former East London Lines sections maybe this could be a solution at the Willesden Jct. LL bay platform?
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Post by longhedge on Apr 1, 2015 20:28:45 GMT
My thoughts..... As the platform has been extended, I would assume as the platform before was OK for 4 cars without SDO, the extension was done to enable 5 cars without selective door opening. Also, as it is a terminal platform, and the driver needs access to both cabs, the whole 5 cars train would have to be on the platform.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2015 20:42:06 GMT
My thoughts..... As the platform has been extended, I would assume as the platform before was OK for 4 cars without SDO, the extension was done to enable 5 cars without selective door opening. Also, as it is a terminal platform, and the driver needs access to both cabs, the whole 5 cars train would have to be on the platform. The driver could walk through the train to the other cab, however I think the position of the signals may be an issue.
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Post by dazz285 on Apr 1, 2015 21:24:50 GMT
All platforms on the NLL, WLL & D.C. are fully 5 car length & SDO is not in use at any of these stations. Also where it was required certain signals have been moved. SDO is only available on the ELL at certain stations.
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Post by wimblephil on Apr 1, 2015 23:10:55 GMT
Also, as it is a terminal platform, and the driver needs access to both cabs, the whole 5 cars train would have to be on the platform. I don't think the S7's fully fit in Platform 3 at Hammersmith (H&C); at least the first set of doors are cut out for Passenger use, and from what I recall the Drivers always enter from the carriage. I think there's a brick wall in the way, but would have to double check...!
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Post by kesmet on Apr 2, 2015 7:36:41 GMT
[I don't think the S7's fully fit in Platform 3 at Hammersmith (H&C); at least the first set of doors are cut out for Passenger use, and from what I recall the Drivers always enter from the carriage. I think there's a brick wall in the way, but would have to double check...! I think they do; there was quite a lot of modification to platform 3 including the building of a new 'annexe' for the cab! Hammersmith Platforms 2 & 3 shows the layout. (Taken from this thread on this very forum, which has some other interesting pictures of the platform 3 area - thanks very much to the photographer!) If you meant the other end of the train, I think that's also accessible directly - see Livis Project site for the actual extension work; it looks like the platform was extended at that end as well for the driver's section only!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2015 10:13:50 GMT
I can confirm the front doors do open on platform 3 at Hammersmith.
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Post by wimblephil on Apr 2, 2015 15:35:42 GMT
Ahh, my bad. Yes I did mean the other end, i.e 'front' doors on departure. I've just not noticed the small access extension. Should double check before posting really! Sorry. Back to LO then...!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2015 17:37:13 GMT
Not sure about the Wood Lane end of the station.
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Post by dazz285 on Apr 3, 2015 12:29:32 GMT
The first 5 car passenger service is planned for Sunday 19th April. More info as & when I get it..
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2015 13:25:24 GMT
The first 5 car passenger service is planned for Sunday 19th April. More info as & when I get it.. And what does that mean for you? Because presumably, with a longer train, drivers will have to adjust where they accelerate when the speed limit goes up. Also, I dunno, presumably the 5 car trains will handle a little bit differently and I dunno whether any of your stopping marks will have changed? Are you getting any training or anything?
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Post by dazz285 on Apr 3, 2015 13:34:03 GMT
The first 5 car passenger service is planned for Sunday 19th April. More info as & when I get it.. And what does that mean for you? Because presumably, with a longer train, drivers will have to adjust where they accelerate when the speed limit goes up. Also, I dunno, presumably the 5 car trains will handle a little bit differently and I dunno whether any of your stopping marks will have changed? Are you getting any training or anything? No adjustment needed on accelerating. Slight difference, apparently in handling. A lot of stop car markers have changed, markers going live as of tomorrow. Had a days briefing in the classroom due to additional software being fitted for CSDE, Correct Side Door Enable, & SDO, Selective Door Opening <-- ELL only.
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Post by redbond on Apr 4, 2015 9:15:43 GMT
The 5 car trains take longer to accelerate, they're quite sluggish now compared to the 4 car trains. Braking is much better though, I've not had to change the way I drive at all, braking areas remain the same.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Apr 4, 2015 9:36:17 GMT
The 5 car trains take longer to accelerate, they're quite sluggish now compared to the 4 car trains. . That's surprising, since they have gone from 75% powered to 80% powered - four cars out of five instead of three out of four.
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Post by redbond on Apr 4, 2015 11:43:59 GMT
Yup it is surprising. That's on DC though, no idea what it's like on AC.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2015 11:56:32 GMT
I would expect there to be some current limiting on these train to reduce the chance of overloading of the electrical supply. This would be configurable at a depot visiting and I would imagine that London Overground Is limiting the 378's power demand at least in the interim to reduce the chance of power supply outages.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2015 6:37:30 GMT
It's a shame their acceleration is poorer than the 4 car when in theory they have more power available. What does the TMS on that traction status screen during acceleration? It used to be 150 Kn for a 4 car. The AC powered units shouldn't see any difference.
Longer Electrostar formations are affected by current limiting but the starting tractive effort seems to be the same up until 20-25 mph where a shorter unit will start pulling away. It's at the higher speeds (above 60 mph) when the lack of puff becomes quite obvious on a 12 car Electrostar on DC for example.
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Post by redbond on Apr 7, 2015 12:03:02 GMT
Daz, I'm assuming NLL have started stopping at 5 car boards today? There's a lot of "why are the trains missing a carriage?" tweets today haha!
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Post by dazz285 on Apr 7, 2015 14:45:36 GMT
Daz, I'm assuming NLL have started stopping at 5 car boards today? There's a lot of "why are the trains missing a carriage?" tweets today haha! Started on Sunday.. 2 week practice getting used to them before they remove/cover the old boards.
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Post by Hassaan on Apr 7, 2015 15:00:50 GMT
The 5 car trains take longer to accelerate, they're quite sluggish now compared to the 4 car trains. . That's surprising, since they have gone from 75% powered to 80% powered - four cars out of five instead of three out of four. The powered vehicles only have motors on one of the two bogies on that carriage. On a 4-car it is 3 out of 8 (37.5%) bogies powered and on a 5-car it is 4 out of 10 (40%) powered. Something that also applies to the original Class 458 4-car versions (the rebuilt 5-car versions just gain an unpowered vehicle).
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Post by norbitonflyer on Apr 7, 2015 22:00:01 GMT
That's surprising, since they have gone from 75% powered to 80% powered - four cars out of five instead of three out of four. The powered vehicles only have motors on one of the two bogies on that carriage. On a 4-car it is 3 out of 8 (37.5%) bogies powered and on a 5-car it is 4 out of 10 (40%) powered. Something that also applies to the original Class 458 4-car versions (the rebuilt 5-car versions just gain an unpowered vehicle). Whether you count cars or bogies, the proportion that are powered is greater in a five-car 378 than in a four-car. Conversely, the 458s are going from 3/4 cars powered to 3/5. (or, in terms of bogies, 3/8 to 3/10) Unlike the 378s. this is a reduction in the power to weight ratio. (The refurbished units have a lower maximum speed if Wikipedia is to be believed: presumably the Windsor lines cannot use the 100mph capability the units had as built, which was useful on the main line services (Alton etc) they were first built for)
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