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Post by mattdickinson on May 6, 2015 12:15:55 GMT
ITSO cards can now be read at London Underground POMs.
The top of the screen lists the journey history. Underneath this is a section for products valid in the TfL area. The product details are undecoded so not very useful at present. The bottom states whether the card holds products valid outside the TfL area.
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rincew1nd
Administrator
Junior Under-wizzard of quiz
Posts: 10,223 
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Post by rincew1nd on May 6, 2015 18:50:45 GMT
OOooo, I might try by Glasgow Subway card then; they're ITSO compliant.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2015 15:47:06 GMT
Maybe that is a sign of eventual ITSO card acceptance on the Tube for buying Travelcards. It will save having to pay a five pounds deposit whenever one needs an Oyster Card, as One can use their ITSO card instead, which is often issued at no extra cost by National Rail Train Companies at the present time.
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Post by spsmiler on May 10, 2015 18:50:50 GMT
Putting Travelcard season tickets on ITSO will only be a good idea if exactly the same conditions of use apply as with paper Travelcard season tickets and with Oyster Travelcard season tickets.
In both the above cases there is no requirement to have the card read (ie: touch in or out) at stations which are 'open' (ie: have free standing card readers instead of ticket gates) or where the ticket gates are open.
Having to start getting the smart card ticket read at every entry or exit would be an extremely bad thing. The reasons include:
* it would see people who forget being penalised - even though they have a ticket which is valid for their entire journey
* it would mean that passengers combining paper tickets and Travelcards on longer journeys would need to get off the train at boundary stations - just to have the smart card read! (already a serious problem with PAYG)
* it would introduce journey time limits to season ticket journeys
* it would mean that many more passengers who attend "Steam On The Met" type events would find themselves no longer able to stay inside the fares paid area for the duration of the event.
Simon
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Post by MoreToJack on May 11, 2015 14:45:46 GMT
All of your points apply only to PAYG, and would have to apply for any smart cards (ITSO or otherwise) to work as a PAYG on LUL.
If you hold a valid Travelcard on your Oyster (or, presumably, other ITSO card if they were to become usable) then your points are invalid, although it is advised to always tap in and out to ensure no maximum fares are charged if you leave your zones.
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Post by snoggle on May 11, 2015 17:18:45 GMT
All of your points apply only to PAYG, and would have to apply for any smart cards (ITSO or otherwise) to work as a PAYG on LUL. If you hold a valid Travelcard on your Oyster (or, presumably, other ITSO card if they were to become usable) then your points are invalid, although it is advised to always tap in and out to ensure no maximum fares are charged if you leave your zones. Those TOCs that use ITSO based cards require cards to be touched in and out on every journey regardless of the ticket type held on the card. I assume they do this because they do allow single and return dated tickets to be loaded and they would never be cancelled from the card without their use being triggered via a gate or validator transaction. Clearly TfL does not work Oyster in that way. TfL are "on the record" as saying ITSO is incapable of supporting PAYG in the form used by TfL. Therefore an ITSO spec card issued by a TOC will never work on PAYG on the TfL network. Southern do have a form of PAYG (Key Go) but it works differently to the TfL version. As you rightly say it makes sense for people to touch in and out even if they hold a Travelcard season if they happen to take an alternative route or go outside their zones. It is worth saying that Mr Smiler is strongly opposed to smart ticketing and any electronic recording of journeys as he considers it a breach of privacy. You'll never convince him that there is an "upside" to smart ticketing. He only wants paper based tickets which allows roam at will travel without any form of restraint or check. He has posted on this basis across more than one forum. |
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Post by MoreToJack on May 12, 2015 0:42:03 GMT
Yes, I'm well aware of this. I've corrected him on numerous points regarding smart ticketing on numerous forums, and will continue to do so. I don't deny that there are downsides (I see them and attempt to rectify them every day!) but they're not as widespread as he makes out, as I'm sure you know.  |
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Post by spsmiler on May 12, 2015 1:01:42 GMT
All of your points apply only to PAYG, and would have to apply for any smart cards (ITSO or otherwise) to work as a PAYG on LUL. If you hold a valid Travelcard on your Oyster (or, presumably, other ITSO card if they were to become usable) then your points are invalid, although it is advised to always tap in and out to ensure no maximum fares are charged if you leave your zones. Those TOCs that use ITSO based cards require cards to be touched in and out on every journey regardless of the ticket type held on the card. I assume they do this because they do allow single and return dated tickets to be loaded and they would never be cancelled from the card without their use being triggered via a gate or validator transaction. Clearly TfL does not work Oyster in that way. TfL are "on the record" as saying ITSO is incapable of supporting PAYG in the form used by TfL. Therefore an ITSO spec card issued by a TOC will never work on PAYG on the TfL network. Southern do have a form of PAYG (Key Go) but it works differently to the TfL version. As you rightly say it makes sense for people to touch in and out even if they hold a Travelcard season if they happen to take an alternative route or go outside their zones. It is worth saying that Mr Smiler is strongly opposed to smart ticketing and any electronic recording of journeys as he considers it a breach of privacy. You'll never convince him that there is an "upside" to smart ticketing. He only wants paper based tickets which allows roam at will travel without any form of restraint or check. He has posted on this basis across more than one forum. Ahem, smart ticketing is not the issue. I use PAYG quote a lot, using anonymous cards which only have value added using cash. I also use period Travelcards (on Oyster), sometimes. I've already explained about the downsides of journey time limits, etc. What I strongly object to is the state using public transport smart cards as if they were personal ID cards. The British people rejected ID cards both after WW2 and during the last Labour administration. Yet now the various authorities have found that transport smart cards have provided a back door method to achieve their aims - and to boot the public are even enthusiastic to "sign up" to it. I dont want a policeman knocking on the door because something happened and "the system" said that I was nearby. This would imply a suggestion of possible guilt and is the opposite of the English way of being innocent until proven otherwise. According to something in one of the railway magazines (I think it was Todays Railways UK, January 2014) there is a legal requirement for ITSO ticket journey records to include personally identifiable data. Police states such as those run by Hitler and Stalin would have embraced such technological possibilities with glee! As I am not a criminal I do not see why I should be tracked like one - or like cattle or a pet with its pet passport. Simon |
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Post by spsmiler on May 12, 2015 17:30:11 GMT
All of your points apply only to PAYG, and would have to apply for any smart cards (ITSO or otherwise) to work as a PAYG on LUL. If you hold a valid Travelcard on your Oyster (or, presumably, other ITSO card if they were to become usable) then your points are invalid, although it is advised to always tap in and out to ensure no maximum fares are charged if you leave your zones. Yes, you are right, almost everything I said already applies to PAYG - but not (at present) to passengers with prepaid season ticket Travelcards - either in paper form or when loaded on Oyster. However, the point behind that message was to express a concern that the introduction of the ability to store Travelcards on ITSO smart cards will see the PAYG style restrictions starting to apply to Travelcards as well. If snoggle is the person who I think he is, then he will know that I have been right before. btw, (a slight change of subject) unless I am mistaken, Travelcards cannot be stored on contactless bank credit / debit cards. However, I wonder whether a 'work-around' for this limitation would be for TfL to store Travelcard 'Tokens' on a passenger's online travel account, with the passengers then associating their chosen contactless card with their TfL account? Simon |
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