Rail Adhesion

[Deleted]

Yesterday on the way home (Between Acton Town and Rayners lane), the driver made an announcement explaining we would not be getting anywhere fast due to rail adhesion issues. You could hear that whenever the driver got past the first notch on the controller, the wheels would slip.  

Anyway, this has made me think about how this issue could be prevented. First thought would be the use of a RAT, but I can imagine this is not possible currently without borrowing from another line.

How would rail adhesion issues be solved without the use of a RAT? Does sandite get spread by hand in places if really bad?

[philthetube]

The E.R.U. (Emergency response unit) could be called out to do the job by hand, though I have never known it. There is no physical reason which I can think of why the Met Rat should not do a trip to Acton, I think A stock is gauged for the route, though I may be wrong.

[Deleted]

The ERU have done de-icing but never known them to lay sandite.
The A stock is cleared east of Rayners Lane on the Picc but 10mph under some of the bridges. The only sub surface stock to be banned on that branch is the S stock due to issues with the signalling west of North Ealing.

[towerman]

Central Line unit 1462 was earmarked to be a RAT train for the Piccadilly when withdrawn from service but it never happened.

[Deleted]

Echoing earlier comments, I can't see why the Met RAT can't do an extra trip down to Acton Town.

[rincew1nd]

Or perhaps the west end Central RAT, out the back of Ruislip down to Acton and back; no speed restriction under the bridges then.

[Deleted]

I heard there were stock shortages today due to wheel flats

[motorman]

Nov 20, 2015 13:22:03 GMT @aetearlscourt said:

The ERU have done de-icing but never known them to lay sandite.
The A stock is cleared east of Rayners Lane on the Picc but 10mph under some of the bridges. The only sub surface stock to be banned on that branch is the S stock due to issues with the signalling west of North Ealing.

If S Stock is banned beyond North Ealing what will be the consequence of a wrong signal being accepted onto the Picc Line from an Ealing Bdwy bound train

[Harsig]

Nov 20, 2015 23:28:07 GMT motorman said:

Nov 20, 2015 13:22:03 GMT @aetearlscourt said:

The ERU have done de-icing but never known them to lay sandite.
The A stock is cleared east of Rayners Lane on the Picc but 10mph under some of the bridges. The only sub surface stock to be banned on that branch is the S stock due to issues with the signalling west of North Ealing.

If S Stock is banned beyond North Ealing what will be the consequence of a wrong signal being accepted onto the Picc Line from an Ealing Bdwy bound train

In theory it should now be impossible for an S stock to be given the incorrect route at Hanger Lane Junction. There is a complicated arrangement there now which measures the length of the train as it approaches the junction, and if it exceeds a certain length ie the length of a 73 stock then the route towards North Ealing will not clear even if it is selected in error. A manual override does exist for long engineering trains that require the route, but this requires positive action by the train operator.

[rincew1nd]

Nov 20, 2015 23:28:07 GMT motorman said:

Nov 20, 2015 13:22:03 GMT @aetearlscourt said:

The ERU have done de-icing but never known them to lay sandite.
The A stock is cleared east of Rayners Lane on the Picc but 10mph under some of the bridges. The only sub surface stock to be banned on that branch is the S stock due to issues with the signalling west of North Ealing.

If S Stock is banned beyond North Ealing what will be the consequence of a wrong signal being accepted onto the Picc Line from an Ealing Bdwy bound train

As Harsig has eloquently expressed, the driver of anything longer than a 72ts now has to press a lineside button to obtain a route towards North Ealing. No more will District Train Operators have to make a confession such that District Dave did!

[Tomcakes]

Nov 20, 2015 17:49:14 GMT @luacton said:

I heard there were stock shortages today due to wheel flats

There have been severe delays every morning this week due to "shortage of trains", although nobody from TfL appears to want to explain the problem and when they will be fixing it!

[Deleted]

A D stock will still let the route to North Ealing clear as found out on Thursday the train was set back and then the signal was selected to Ealing Broadway.

[Deleted]

Nov 21, 2015 9:37:32 GMT @aetearlscourt said:

A D stock will still let the route to North Ealing clear as found out on Thursday the train was set back and then the signal was selected to Ealing Broadway.

I've been tempted to push those plungers at WM20 when I've sat at it several times.

[100andthirty]

Regarding adhesion, the story is complicated, and what follows makes a number of assumptions.

Firstly, the Piccadilly line is usually susceptible to adhesion problems in the autumn, but nothing compared with the Metropolitan and Central Lines. In general, the issue can be controlled by vegitation management.

However, each autumn brings its own unique problems, and this year is no exception. We have had a generally benign and warm autumn which was brought to an abrupt halt last week with the high winds and heavy rain. I wasn't in London last week, but I imagine that a huge quantity of wet leaves were brought down and the impact was probably more serious than usual - hence the OP's post. Each year LU plans for leaf fall and reviews the performance during leaf fall.

[Deleted]

Nov 21, 2015 18:43:47 GMT @jim said:

Nov 21, 2015 9:37:32 GMT @aetearlscourt said:

A D stock will still let the route to North Ealing clear as found out on Thursday the train was set back and then the signal was selected to Ealing Broadway.

I've been tempted to push those plungers at WM20 when I've sat at it several times.

It will still clear for you Jim aslong as you driving a D