Blimey! Acton Main Line ain't THAT far from Paddington

[Deleted]

www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/how-the-tube-map-will-look-when-the-elizabeth-line-is-included-on-it-a3250876.html#gallery

[wimblephil]

To be fair, if you search for Acton Main Line on Google Maps, then try and find Paddington, it is a fair old distance!
Obviously the Tube map gets a little skewed, but I think that's actually quite representative!

[phoenixcronin]

Its almost where its always been on the Tube and Rail Map

content.tfl.gov.uk/london-rail-and-tube-services-map.pdf

What's more awkward I think is the way they've tried to fit the Reading bit into the map, instead of using an arrow to simply say "towards Reading"

[theblackferret]

It's 4.5 miles by road & at least 4 miles on GWR services, so that representation, by Tube map standards, is actually quite realistic, even though it's currently the first stop out of Paddington.

[Deleted]

Yes the distance is almost five miles, according to a Map Search between Acton Mainline and Paddington national rail stations. That may be the longest distance between Crossrail Stations on the route. Even Custom House to Woolwich to Abbey Wood comes to Three plus Three miles,in two equal halves from Custom House to Woolwich to Abbey Wood.

[superteacher]

The tube map has never been designed with accurate distances in mind. If it was, you wouldn't have people travelling from Queensway to Paddington by tube when it's a 5 min walk at street level!

[theblackferret]

May 18, 2016 20:16:01 GMT superteacher said:

The tube map has never been designed with accurate distances in mind. If it was, you wouldn't have people travelling from Queensway to Paddington by tube when it's a 5 min walk at street level!

True enough & the same went for all BR's regions & their maps.

But, prior to Beck, there was some attempt in places, usually outside the Central area, to represent the longer & shorter between station gaps more accurately:


1932 map

[Deleted]

Following theblackferret's link, I notice a strange gap between Wood Lane and Shepherd's Bush on what was at the time, the Metropolitan Railway

[Chris M]

May 18, 2016 19:23:27 GMT phoenixcronin said:

What's more awkward I think is the way they've tried to fit the Reading bit into the map, instead of using an arrow to simply say "towards Reading"

[/p][/quote]
I don't think an arrow is required - just space it out more. Put Reading on the same level as Heathrow T123 and arrange the stations about evenly and it would look a lot less like an afterthought imo.

[John Tuthill]

May 18, 2016 22:24:49 GMT @andymaynard said:

Following theblackferret's link, I notice a strange gap between Wood Lane and Shepherd's Bush on what was at the time, the Metropolitan Railway

Considering that that line was the 'middle circle' until the line at Latimer Road was bombed and never repaired. There was an 'outer circle' which used that line, I think it went to Willesden Junction, and ended up in Broad Street? I'll check the library.

[phoenixcronin]

May 18, 2016 22:24:49 GMT @andymaynard said:

Following theblackferret's link, I notice a strange gap between Wood Lane and Shepherd's Bush on what was at the time, the Metropolitan Railway

Are you sure the gap isn't just to fit in the words "WOOD LANE". I notice a similar gap at Notting Hill Gate

[norbitonflyer]

The line with the gap in it is the present H&C line, not the Middle Circle, which ran from Mansion House to Aldgate via Addison Road and the now-closed link to the H&C.

The Outer Circle ran from Broad Street to Victoria via Willesden Junction and Clapham Junction, later diverted at Addison Road to run to Mansion House via South Kensington. It was for this service that the MDR built its electric locomotives. The current NLL uses part of its route - the Olympia Shuttle is another surviving vestige.

There was also a short-lived "Super Outer Circle" from St Pancras to Earls Court via the Dudding Hill line and the now-closed side of the Gunnersbury triangle.

Most of these longer orbital routes withered away when trams and motorbuses started to compete with them on the shorter journeys, and deep level tubes provided more direct ways of getting from one side of London to the other. The Outer and Inner Circles fought off the competition by electrification, as did the ELL and SLL: although in the ELL's case the physical barrier of the Thames limited the amount of road competition anyway.

[norbitonflyer]

It won't look like that anyway - are there not plans to Overgroundise South Eastern services when the current franchise expires, six months before the Crossrail core opens and a full eighteen months before through running, as depicted on the map, becomes a reality. Indeed, by that time the proposed break clause in the SWT franchise will have kicked in too, and trains should also have started running on the Croxley link.

Is it too much to hope that TfL is only ignoring the other line at Farringdon because it is waiting for its upgrade to be completed, also in 2018?

[rincew1nd]

May 19, 2016 12:25:03 GMT norbitonflyer said:

...Overgroundise...

I think that's just become my word of the week!

[piccboy]

May 19, 2016 11:26:13 GMT norbitonflyer said:

The line with the gap in it is the present H&C line, not the Middle Circle, which ran from Mansion House to Aldgate via Addison Road and the now-closed link to the H&C.

The Outer Circle ran from Broad Street to Victoria via Willesden Junction and Clapham Junction, later diverted at Addison Road to run to Mansion House via South Kensington. It was for this service that the MDR built its electric locomotives. The current NLL uses part of its route - the Olympia Shuttle is another surviving vestige.

There was also a short-lived "Super Outer Circle" from St Pancras to Earls Court via the Dudding Hill line and the now-closed side of the Gunnersbury triangle.

Most of these longer orbital routes withered away when trams and motorbuses started to compete with them on the shorter journeys, and deep level tubes provided more direct ways of getting from one side of London to the other. The Outer and Inner Circles fought off the competition by electrification, as did the ELL and SLL: although in the ELL's case the physical barrier of the Thames limited the amount of road competition anyway.

Here is a map showing the various circle lines.

[norbitonflyer]

May 19, 2016 14:48:15 GMT piccboy said:

Here is a map showing the various circle lines.

That's very interesting. It appears to show the plans immediately pre-Yerkes - including the City & Brixton but not including, for example, the Morgan tubes or the Bakerloo's Crickelwood extension .

here's another map

[theblackferret]

May 19, 2016 15:43:58 GMT norbitonflyer said:

May 19, 2016 14:48:15 GMT piccboy said:

Here is a map showing the various circle lines.

That's very interesting. It appears to show the plans immediately pre-Yerkes - including the City & Brixton but not including, for example, the Morgan tubes or the Bakerloo's Crickelwood extension .

here's another map

Very interesting-piccboy has found something pre-1902, when the GN & SR Act was passed mooting the merger with the GNP & BR. The line to KWS is named City & Brixton Railway-authorising Act in 1898, abandonment act thrown out in 1902 when taken over by C & SLR instead & powers allowed to lapse. As the C & SLR line is now through London Bridge & on to Bank, as an operating railway, not under construction etc, that was from 1900, so the map must be from 1900 or 1901.

Back on the thread subject, the Strand(later Aldwych) branch looks a couple of miles out from Holborn!

[norbitonflyer]

May 19, 2016 20:00:39 GMT theblackferret said:

Very interesting-piccboy has found something pre-1902, the map must be from 1900 or 1901.

Although the map certainly depicts the railways of central London of that era, I don't think it was created that long ago.

One error- the metropolitan railway's ownership of the branch from Paddington round to south Kensington is not shown. (All the "circle" services were operated by one or other of the met, midland, mdr or lnwr)

[rincew1nd]

May 19, 2016 20:00:39 GMT theblackferret said:

May 19, 2016 15:43:58 GMT norbitonflyer said:

That's very interesting. It appears to show the plans immediately pre-Yerkes - including the City & Brixton but not including, for example, the Morgan tubes or the Bakerloo's Crickelwood extension .

here's another map

Very interesting - piccboy has found something pre-1902...

Not quite. You'll note its hosted on Doug Rose's site; it's one of his excellent diagrams of a more recent era. Click here for the diagram with his commentary, though his full site is well worth exploring - it's certainly taken up my evening!