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Post by Dstock7080 on Jul 2, 2019 19:19:47 GMT
Hey all, I was in Farringdon earlier and noticed that the Outer to Inner circle line points were removed! When was this work done? 36A/36B points decommisioned 26 January 2019. Plain-lining done in stages, completion 18 February 2019.
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Post by alpinejohn on Jul 4, 2019 13:21:02 GMT
July is now upon us, with the potential next stage of the ssr-signalling project notionally entering testing in "mid July".
As the first stage took a few goes to get to a stage where the signalling team were confident it was fit for purpose, I wonder if there will there be a further weekend of closure/test operations announced - like the launch section?
I had a quick look through the latest Weekend TFL Information notice for weekend 6/7 July. That does not show anything that appears obviously related to the project, so presumably any closure(s) will be covered in the notice for 13/14 July, or for this section has all the tunnel related work (Balise placement and testing etc) already been completed during overnight shutdowns so its simply a matter of flipping a few switches?
As the proposed new section extends across into District and Metropolitan line service territory it also introduces the complexity of trains of a system with different lengths, and will presumably need acceleration and braking profiles in the system chosen to suit the slowest/heaviest trains with peak hour crush loads to keep service frequency stable.
So will that result in a temporary drop in throughput/capacity under automated operation compared with the current lamps on poles set up - at least until the entire 4LM network moves to TBTC?
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Post by Dstock7080 on Jul 4, 2019 14:10:22 GMT
July is now upon us, with the potential next stage of the ssr-signalling project notionally entering testing in "mid July". As the first stage took a few goes to get to a stage where the signalling team were confident it was fit for purpose, I wonder if there will there be a further weekend of closure/test operations announced - like the launch section? I had a quick look through the latest Weekend TFL Information notice for weekend 6/7 July. That does not show anything that appears obviously related to the project, so presumably any closure(s) will be covered in the notice for 13/14 July, or for this section has all the tunnel related work (Balise placement and testing etc) already been completed during overnight shutdowns so its simply a matter of flipping a few switches? As the proposed new section extends across into District and Metropolitan line service territory it also introduces the complexity of trains of a system with different lengths, and will presumably need acceleration and braking profiles in the system chosen to suit the slowest/heaviest trains with peak hour crush loads to keep service frequency stable. So will that result in a temporary drop in throughput/capacity under automated operation compared with the current lamps on poles set up - at least until the entire 4LM network moves to TBTC? This weekend (6-7 July) is for station works at Whitechapel. An operational proving weekend is booked for 20-21 July 2019, for SMA 1/2. With trains running empty into the new CBTC area (District Line trains from Olympia-Edgware Road, MET Finchley Road-King's Cross, Circle/H&C Hammersmith-King's Cross). Commissioning of this section is now for early-August. Service levels will remain the same, until the new timetable is introduced, expected to be March 2020.
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Tom
Administrator
Signalfel?
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Post by Tom on Jul 4, 2019 19:20:17 GMT
I had a quick look through the latest Weekend TFL Information notice for weekend 6/7 July. That does not show anything that appears obviously related to the project, so presumably any closure(s) will be covered in the notice for 13/14 July, or for this section has all the tunnel related work (Balise placement and testing etc) already been completed during overnight shutdowns so its simply a matter of flipping a few switches? It's a little more than flipping a few switches, but you get the general idea. Tags have been in situ for about two or three years now and we were already testing in this area at weekends when I joined the project team a year ago. We've currently got tags installed up to about Harrow on the Hill - they're one of the easier things to install.
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Post by ijmad on Jul 10, 2019 11:02:43 GMT
It seems like SMA 0.5 has performed very well overall, right? At least from my customer's point of view. Not sure if things are more stressful behind the scenes. I appreciate SMA1/2 is a vastly more complex area but it surely bodes well than the new system has been behaving itself.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2019 16:08:42 GMT
To my knowledge there has been 1 major failure at Hammersmith which was quickly resolved and many others but these were in equipment which has lots of redundancy. So no loss to service again quickly resolved during engineering hours.
So overall yes it’s doing good but I’m fairness it’s not exactly working flat out as it only doing Hammersmith to Latimer Road
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futurix
Formerly Alex F
The cows are not what they seem.
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Post by futurix on Jul 10, 2019 16:23:31 GMT
Well, soon it will be working flat out - on flat junctions that is!
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Post by ijmad on Jul 10, 2019 17:30:07 GMT
Well, soon it will be working flat out - on flat junctions that is! Very funny, although in all seriousness I'd imagine having Praed Street and Baker Street junctions under ATO control might help with the overall stability of the whole SSR timetable, especially service recovery.
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Jul 10, 2019 18:28:36 GMT
Only if it works as intended. Who knows what gremlins will appear once used in anger.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2019 18:49:53 GMT
Well, soon it will be working flat out - on flat junctions that is! Very funny, although in all seriousness I'd imagine having Praed Street and Baker Street junctions under ATO control might help with the overall stability of the whole SSR timetable, especially service recovery. Don't go upsetting our resident Signal Op for Edgware Road
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Post by superteacher on Jul 10, 2019 21:17:46 GMT
Remember that the Thales system has had issues on the Northern line at junctions in respect of putting trains through efficiently. And those aren’t even conflicting flat junctions like Praed Street and Baker Street. Will be interesting to see how it all copes.
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Post by ijmad on Jul 11, 2019 9:01:58 GMT
As a software engineer I always tend to think a computer will easily beat a human at scheduling, but it seems we are still in the 'early days' of ATO on such complicated railways.
In another 20 years I expect there'll be no question about what's more efficient.
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futurix
Formerly Alex F
The cows are not what they seem.
Posts: 75
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Post by futurix on Jul 11, 2019 15:46:31 GMT
I think flat junctions as present on SSR are actually easier to program for - less simultaneous actions possible, less multithreading, less complexity.
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Post by MoreToJack on Jul 12, 2019 13:16:47 GMT
I feel I’m going to get this on my epitaph, but...
Praed Street Junction is not complex, difficult or the hardest part of working Edgware Road. As stated, flat junctions aren’t a huge complexity, as there’s very little options available.
The problem at Edgware is the platforms - and their interface with the junction. Flighting across trains in the wrong (as in, not the most efficient, rather than off timetable) order can very quickly lead to blocking back if you have a train waiting for a platform at the homes. A human can draw on their experience and the provided CCTV cameras to make a decision as to whether it is better to hold short of the junction or bring over if there are delays, or indeed to diverts services to different platforms if necessary.
A computer doesn’t necessarily have all of this intuition or flexibility - it’s only as good as what it’s been programmed to do, and by the time someone manually intervenes you’ve lost valuable seconds that wouldn’t be present in the current set up.
In theory, however, ATO should speed up the flat junctions and ensure trains are presented for a path straight across.
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Post by ijmad on Jul 12, 2019 13:27:53 GMT
Thanks MoreToJack that is a really good insider insight. Fingers crossed for July/August I guess!
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class411
Operations: Normal
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Post by class411 on Jul 17, 2019 13:36:08 GMT
Eastbound train describers on H & C and C line not working again this weekend.
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Post by goldenarrow on Jul 17, 2019 14:07:25 GMT
Eastbound train describers on H & C and C line not working again this weekend. I think that could be because King's X isn't a destination that can be offered up to the legacy train describers as it was never added. Moorgate is often used as the substitution on the Metropolitan line when reversing at the menagerie for this reason.
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Post by MoreToJack on Jul 17, 2019 14:26:31 GMT
Eastbound train describers on H & C and C line not working again this weekend. I think that could be because King's X isn't a destination that can be offered up to the legacy train describers as it was never added. Moorgate is often used as the substitution on the Metropolitan line when reversing at the menagerie for this reason. KX (King's Cross) is available as a TD (Train Description) from (at least) High Street Kensington and Edgware Road. There is no legacy TD equipment west of Edgware Road. The Met has been 'bodged' south of Wembley to display King's Cross St. Pancras at the insistence of a vocal former CSA at that station who got fed up of dealing with passengers complaining that their train was for Moorgate but has turned short, back during the very first KX shutdown in 2016. 😬 The issues with the DMI feeds on the branch are an ongoing issue with the data link. It should be resolved once SMA 1/2 comes in.
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class411
Operations: Normal
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Post by class411 on Jul 17, 2019 14:33:58 GMT
The issues with the DMI feeds on the branch are an ongoing issue with the data link. It should be resolved once SMA 1/2 comes in. Ah, so it is a single known problem, rather than a series of unrelated bugs, plaguing that particular sub-system. Thanks. That is what was interesting me.
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Post by jimbo on Jul 17, 2019 19:03:09 GMT
According to the 4LM Project Management Briefing – June 2019 whilst all S7 are fitted and in London, only just over 80 are "revenue ready certified", available for ATC service and offered. Whilst all S8 are fitted and in London, none are described as "revenue ready certified" etc, which will soon be necessary. Can anyone explain this?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2019 19:06:03 GMT
Software upgrades perhaps
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Post by MoreToJack on Jul 17, 2019 19:59:44 GMT
Software upgrades perhaps Exactly that.
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Post by ijmad on Jul 20, 2019 12:59:14 GMT
The issues with the DMI feeds on the branch are an ongoing issue with the data link. It should be resolved once SMA 1/2 comes in. As inconvenient as it is, I can certainly appreciate it doesn't make sense to spend money, time and resources on fixing this during these few weeks before SMA1/2 goes live. Do you think there will be other issues interfacing DMIs elsewhere once it is, perhaps at the new CBTC 'borders'? Or are the Hammersmith branch problems likely unique?
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Post by philthetube on Jul 22, 2019 17:55:20 GMT
Any news concerning the weekend trials?
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Post by Dstock7080 on Jul 22, 2019 19:13:33 GMT
Any news concerning the weekend trials? I understand there was a problem on Saturday with a defective axle counter near King’s Cross. On Sunday I completed 4 trips from Olympia to Edgware Road, changing successfully to CBTC at Paddington EB each time. Only one trip went without a delay approaching Edgware Road, was quite unnerving to enter platform 2 over 22mph with a train in platform 1. One other District S7 did have problems yesterday, going non-communicating and having to run in RM towards Edgware Road at 9.9mph.
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Post by ijmad on Jul 22, 2019 21:53:05 GMT
A passing mark for SMA1/2, do you think, or not?
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Post by MoreToJack on Jul 23, 2019 4:04:03 GMT
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Jul 23, 2019 5:58:46 GMT
I understand there was a problem on Saturday with a defective axle counter near King’s Cross. It was at Baker Street, platform 4 out of use from 1600 to Close of Traffic.
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DWS
every second count's
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Post by DWS on Jul 23, 2019 7:40:24 GMT
I understand there was a problem on Saturday with a defective axle counter near King’s Cross. It was at Baker Street, platform 4 out of use from 1600 to Close of Traffic. Are you able to tell us why Baker Street platform 4 was out of use from 1600 to close of traffic ?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2019 8:08:26 GMT
A direction arrow for the axle counter was installed wrong on installation
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