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Post by roman80 on Jul 3, 2017 21:16:50 GMT
As 'dot matrix' has come up, I would like to suggest that the external dot matrix displays on district stock show the final destination at all times. Its annoying at interchange stations to arrive at the platform and not know which branch the train is headed on. The time it is blank or says 'district line' is essentially wasted.
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Post by superteacher on Jul 3, 2017 21:40:37 GMT
As 'dot matrix' has come up, I would like to suggest that the external dot matrix displays on district stock show the final destination at all times. Its annoying at interchange stations to arrive at the platform and not know which branch the train is headed on. The time it is blank or says 'district line' is essentially wasted. What about where the District runs along the same track as the Circle or Hammersmith & City?
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Post by t697 on Jul 3, 2017 21:54:42 GMT
As 'dot matrix' has come up, I would like to suggest that the external dot matrix displays on district stock show the final destination at all times. Its annoying at interchange stations to arrive at the platform and not know which branch the train is headed on. The time it is blank or says 'district line' is essentially wasted. Again, that's what LU specify. For many passengers the line name is good enough if they've already picked the correct EB or WB platform, and they don't need the destination unless they are wanting a specific branch of a specific line. Indeed some tourists taking short trips in central London probably don't have a clue where Upminster or Ealing Broadway are at all! Yes, obviously at Earl's Court WB you really, really want the destination and all trains are Districts anyway of course. More use at say Whitechapel when you are going west and want to know whether it's an H&C or District for the divergence at Aldgate East.
It's more frustrating on the Met line where it rotates between Metropolitan line, the stopping pattern (also very important) and the end destination. At least on Circle, District and H&C it's only swapping between the line name and the destination or with most of a Circle run, Circle line and a via Station. Although it can feel a little frustrating, there are times it's useful and you only have to wait 2.5 seconds (I think) for it to alternate, or 5 seconds worst case on the Met.
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Jul 4, 2017 0:08:08 GMT
The problem on the Met with the external displays is that you have to wait for "Metropolitan Line", "All stations" to get to "Amersham" - sometimes it takes more than 1 cycle if someone is in the way or you were looking for information elsewhere for (part of) the 2.5 seconds so that's about 10 seconds of the 20-second dwell time.
More useful, if technically possible, would be to prioritise different information at different stations. At King's Cross "Metropolitan Line" is the most important, at Baker Street, "Amersham" is the priority, while at Wembley Park "all stations" is top.
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class411
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Post by class411 on Jul 4, 2017 8:03:20 GMT
It's not particularly nice to be referred to as a muppet on here, but nevertheless I'll offer some more thoughts. I wasn't saying anyone was a muppet, just that that is what people might think. (Particularly if the train is running very slowly for some reason and hence the display stays blank for a longer than usual period of time.) I have on several occasions been in the position of designing a system or interface about which people have complained (and no doubt thought the designer was a bit of a muppet), because they were unaware of some deeper technical reasons for a particular design decision. It seems to me that 'The Powers That Be' (I don't see any point in breaking up the specification/implementation responsibilities as the public are just going to think: 'LU') are overcomplicating the issue. There's no real reason why the display cannot simply announce the approaching station name as soon as the current blank period starts. After all, it's not as if passengers can start getting out before the train stops.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2017 10:56:59 GMT
I travel on the Met line everyday and I agree here with the comments that the screens goes blank at key times and it takes far too long to rotate the message.
Many a times, I'm just outside Harrow on the Hill and then wondered where the train was heading- only for the display to show nothing.
Then I like the thought of making the display more clever- I'm personally not interested that its Met train- I want to find out the destination!
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cso
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Post by cso on Jul 4, 2017 11:21:36 GMT
Surely once you are beyond Baker Street, it doesn't matter what sort of train it is until you reach Rayners Lane (if you're Uxbridge bound) or Rickmansworth (Amersham/Chesham bound) as they are all Met Trains?
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Post by Chris M on Jul 4, 2017 11:26:21 GMT
Does it even matter on the Uxbridge branch westbound as both lines use the same tracks to the same destinations.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2017 13:32:56 GMT
Surely once you are beyond Baker Street, it doesn't matter what sort of train it is until you reach Rayners Lane (if you're Uxbridge bound) or Rickmansworth (Amersham/Chesham bound) as they are all Met Trains? There are still some fast trains. If I'm heading out from North Harrow to Amersham when fast trains are running, I'd like to know if it'worth taking the first train to Moor Park, or doubling back via Harrow-on-the-Hill.
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cso
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Post by cso on Jul 4, 2017 13:45:40 GMT
By "sort of train" i meant specifically Met Line / Circle Line / District Line not Fast/All Stations/Semi-Fast
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londoner
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Post by londoner on Jul 4, 2017 19:36:15 GMT
A message is still needed that the trains are "Metropolitan line". There are still many people who don't regularly use the tube to omit such a message.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Jul 4, 2017 19:42:10 GMT
A message is still needed that the trains are "Metropolitan line". There are still many people who don't regularly use the tube to omit such a message. Surely only where the tracks are shared? Would anyone at say, Harrow on the Hill or Watford, expect to see anything else? Is it necessary for Northern Line trains to say "Northern Line" on them?
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Post by AndrewPSSP on Jul 5, 2017 11:44:25 GMT
"] Surely only where the tracks are shared? Would anyone at say, Harrow on the Hill or Watford, expect to see anything else? Is it necessary for Northern Line trains to say "Northern Line" on them? No, and that's probably the reason they removed them...
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Post by AndrewPSSP on Jul 5, 2017 11:46:37 GMT
A message is still needed that the trains are "Metropolitan line". There are still many people who don't regularly use the tube to omit such a message. If the S8 Stock was used exclusively on the Met, wouldn't it be a good idea to place purple 'Metropolitan line' stickers on them like they did on the A Stock.
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Post by MoreToJack on Jul 5, 2017 13:39:25 GMT
I think you are all underestimating how confusing the Tube can be for the casual traveller - even more so for those from rural small towns, or for whom English isn't their first language.
It's very easy to understand the Underground if it's your hobby, or if you're travelling on it day in, day out. But even a simple straight line like the Victoria can be daunting for others, and the additional validation of what sort of train it is provided by window stickers, platform signage etc is very much appreciated.
Obviously we can't have fixed stickers on the S7 fleet, so we need to scroll that information on the external DMIs. Whilst the regular commuters may be more interested in the final destination or stopping pattern, the infrequent users care more about what line it is - even if that's on the outskirts of London - so that they can be certain that it is the train for them. This is even more vital on the S7s with two sets of route maps on the inside (and the same issues existed on the C stock).
It's not the perfect solution, but you'd struggle to please everyone, short of giving over an entire window to a dot matrix screen (and even then, you're upsetting the people who now can't see out of it!).
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Post by AndrewPSSP on Jul 6, 2017 12:34:24 GMT
Maybe on the next train displays it could say, for example, 'District line: Ealing Broadway' instead of just Ealing Broadway. It could also be useful to place stickers at the bottom of the displays. So for example at Cannon Street it could say: ______________________________________ |1. District line: Wimbledon 1min | |2. Circle line via High St. Kensington 3mins | | Circle and District lines | with the Circle and District lines as the sticker at the bottom.
and on platforms serving only one line, for example Bank Platform 4, it could say: ____________________________________ |1. HIGH BARNET 3 mins | |2. MILL HILL EAST 15 mins | | Northern line (Bank branch) |
Probably wishful thinking, but it could happen...
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Post by Chris M on Jul 6, 2017 14:39:00 GMT
In another thread (which I can't immediately find) we also discussed the possibility of LED/LCD line colour external displays.
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Post by i3lu on Jul 22, 2017 9:05:28 GMT
Question. I was in the S7+1 21327-21328 few days ago and when approaching HOTH the "special" trailer 25386 displayed Uxbridge, Chesham and Amersham while the second trailer displayed Uxbridge and Chesham and Amersham. So, every single car has their own DVA/PIS?
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Post by firestorm on Jul 22, 2017 15:57:25 GMT
Question. I was in the S7+1 21327-21328 few days ago and when approaching HOTH the "special" trailer 25386 displayed Uxbridge, Chesham and Amersham while the second trailer displayed Uxbridge and Chesham and Amersham. So, every single car has their own DVA/PIS? Every car has a PIS known as a Car Controller, which takes care of all the audio, visual displays, PEA, saloon speakers for that car only. The only difference is the DM car, which has a PIS System Controller, which is functionally the same as the Car Controller, but has a Digital Voice Announcement (DVA) database, the active Cab controls the audio functions and feeds the other CIS audio modules of the same Car. A Vehicle Control Unit - Comfort or VCU-C located in the MS1 car, synchronises and handles the overall CIS operation, by syncing the audio and visual displays, has route databases, contains visual messages and triggers the audio messages.
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