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Post by superteacher on Nov 27, 2017 21:38:30 GMT
So where did all of the former ticket office staff go to . . .
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paulsw2
My Train Runs For Those Who Wait Not Wait For Those That Run
Posts: 302
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Post by paulsw2 on Nov 27, 2017 21:45:21 GMT
Seeing a poster on a stn today regarding unwell passengers saying help them onto the platform makes me think if the station is unstaffed are the passengers possibly putting said person in greater risk
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2017 21:49:10 GMT
In the 1980's Royal Oak station was sometimes left unattended at off peak hours and Weekends when staff were short.
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rincew1nd
Administrator
Junior Under-wizzard of quiz
Posts: 10,225
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Post by rincew1nd on Nov 27, 2017 22:01:57 GMT
In that clip I find it interesting that when the reporter is on the gate line the gates are open and unattended, however when filming the various 'vox pops' outside the station the gates can be seen in the background opening and closing. Hmmmm.
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Post by revupminster on Nov 27, 2017 22:37:14 GMT
Following the company plan 1993 and later changes stations Upney to Upminster Bridge, except for Dagenham Heathway were staffed with four multifunctional supervisors working three shifts round the clock and one part time (0600-1100 Mon-Fri, no meal relief required) multifunctional station assistant.
They were expected to keep the ticket office open when not dealing with problems on the platform or track or their meal relief. If someone was sick and no cover available the station was left unmanned. If the supervisor went off the station for a meal relief the station was left unmanned. 12 hour Sundays required two meal reliefs for the 0700-1900 duty.
So nothing is new except the ticket gates when part time station assistants began to be employed.
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londoner
thinking on '73 stock
Posts: 478
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Post by londoner on Nov 27, 2017 23:17:40 GMT
I dislike people such as the journalist that block the ticket barriers for no reason. I find this to be the biggest problem!!!
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Post by domh245 on Nov 27, 2017 23:33:23 GMT
I don't think he'd be getting in many people's way at midday at Wimbledon Park!
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Post by whistlekiller2000 on Nov 28, 2017 7:53:33 GMT
In the 1980's Royal Oak station was sometimes left unattended at off peak hours and Weekends when staff were short. They're a lot taller now.
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Post by aslefshrugged on Nov 28, 2017 8:22:57 GMT
So where did all of the former ticket office staff go to . . . My own empirical research (i.e. talking to station staff) suggests that most of the "Multi Functionals" (SAMF) in the ticket offices became Customer Service Supervisors (CSS) and the Station Supervisors (SS) became Customer Service Managers (CSM) or took voluntary redundancy. Taking Wimbledon Park as an example before FFTF it had 4 SS3/MFs and 3 CSAs rostered, now it has 4 CSS2s and shares 4 roving CSM2s with West Brompton, Parsons Green, Putney Bridge, East Putney and Southfields. Fulham Broadway is classed as a "Metro" station so has its own staff separate from the others. The CSS2s would have been SAMFs somewhere else, I think I mentioned in another thread that I met a CSS who lives in Epping and used to work in the ticket office at Holborn, she was displaced to Ealing Broadway so instead of two 45 minute journeys every day she has two 1 hour 13 minute journeys plus she now has to work nights. The CSS2s currently at Wimbledon Park could have been working at Embankment or any other station within 30 minutes travel time. Upney to Upminster Bridge are similar, all seven stations had 4 SS3/MFs except for Hornchurch which had 5 (no idea why). In addition Dagenham Heathway (my local station when I was a lad) had 2 SAMFs and 3 CSAs, Upney and Elm Park had one part time SAMF each, Becontree has a part time SAMF and a part time CSA while Dagenham East and Hornchurch had a part time CSA each. Now all seven stations have 4 CSS2s except for Hornchurch which has 5 with 4 roving CSM3s covering all the stations. Those seven stations are part of "Cover Group E" which includes Bromley by Bow and everything in between so a reserve CSS2 could be required to work eleven different stations (no CSSs at Barking but there are 10 CSAs to assist with detraining).
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North End
Beneath Newington Causeway
Posts: 1,769
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Post by North End on Nov 28, 2017 8:45:26 GMT
So where did all of the former ticket office staff go to . . . My own empirical research (i.e. talking to station staff) suggests that most of the "Multi Functionals" (SAMF) in the ticket offices became Customer Service Supervisors (CSS) and the Station Supervisors (SS) became Customer Service Managers (CSM) or took voluntary redundancy. Taking Wimbledon Park as an example before FFTF it had 4 SS3/MFs and 3 CSAs rostered, now it has 4 CSS2s and shares 4 roving CSM2s with West Brompton, Parsons Green, Putney Bridge, East Putney and Southfields. Fulham Broadway is classed as a "Metro" station so has its own staff separate from the others. The CSS2s would have been SAMFs somewhere else, I think I mentioned in another thread that I met a CSS who lives in Epping and used to work in the ticket office at Holborn, she was displaced to Ealing Broadway so instead of two 45 minute journeys every day she has two 1 hour 13 minute journeys plus she now has to work nights. The CSS2s currently at Wimbledon Park could have been working at Embankment or any other station within 30 minutes travel time. Upney to Upminster Bridge are similar, all seven stations had 4 SS3/MFs except for Hornchurch which had 5 (no idea why). In addition Dagenham Heathway (my local station when I was a lad) had 2 SAMFs and 3 CSAs, Upney and Elm Park had one part time SAMF each, Becontree has a part time SAMF and a part time CSA while Dagenham East and Hornchurch had a part time CSA each. Now all seven stations have 4 CSS2s except for Hornchurch which has 5 with 4 roving CSM3s covering all the stations. Those seven stations are part of "Cover Group E" which includes Bromley by Bow and everything in between so a reserve CSS2 could be required to work eleven different stations (no CSSs at Barking but there are 10 CSAs to assist with detraining). The stations side is a shambles following the fit for the future. It’a hard to know what the underlying issues are, however apart from the large stations (which are basically manned by ex SS1s or DSMs, in many cases in the same location as before) anything which involves dealing with stations is now like pulling teeth. The company made a similar balls-up with trains management in 2010. This was eventually acknowledged by the powers that be and was largely reversed this year, albeit with a lot of expertise, knowledge and experience having drained down the proverbial toilet in the interim, so they have simply gone from one poorly performing model to another. Unfortunately fit for the future stations is quite similar, but on a much bigger scale. A rudderless ship drifting round and round in circles in the sea.
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Post by superteacher on Nov 28, 2017 9:04:57 GMT
“Fit For the Future” is a tad of an ironic name!
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Post by stapler on Nov 28, 2017 11:05:50 GMT
And it has an impeccable pedigree.....eg in the NHS
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Post by MoreToJack on Nov 28, 2017 14:01:06 GMT
“Fit For the Future” is a tad of an ironic name! The various alternatives that float around are unfortunately not suitable for writing on this forum.
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Post by spsmiler on Nov 28, 2017 22:03:19 GMT
“Fit For the Future” is a tad of an ironic name! The various alternatives that float around are unfortunately not suitable for writing on this forum. Hmm, the mind boggles. But its probably the same in most large corporations. ------------------------------ My view is that the BBC is story only tells what it wants people to hear. In short, its all politics and government bashing, racking up muck and creating the impression that railway stations are unsafe. A more honest story would have included DLR stations and tram stops - almost all of which were unstaffed from when services commenced. Indeed, most DLR stations also have steps down which people can fall, yet no-one complains. Open ticket barriers at stations are 'correct procedure'. It would be more newsworthy if they were closed when no-one was about. Simon
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Post by domh245 on Nov 28, 2017 22:30:29 GMT
My view is that the BBC is story only tells what it wants people to hear. In short, its all politics and government bashing, racking up muck and creating the impression that railway stations are unsafe. A more honest story would have included DLR stations and tram stops - almost all of which were unstaffed from when services commenced. Indeed, most DLR stations also have steps down which people can fall, yet no-one complains. Open ticket barriers at stations are 'correct procedure'. It would be more newsworthy if they were closed when no-one was about. Simon That may all be the case, but the fact of the matter is that TfL have been caught lying. As per the video and the press release Which quite clearly isn't the case.
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pitdiver
No longer gainfully employed
Posts: 439
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Post by pitdiver on Nov 29, 2017 5:36:56 GMT
Don't forget that the decline in the quality of service to be found at stations began with the start of " Company Plan"
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Post by aslefshrugged on Nov 29, 2017 7:48:34 GMT
The various alternatives that float around are unfortunately not suitable for writing on this forum. Hmm, the mind boggles. But its probably the same in most large corporations. ------------------------------ My view is that the BBC is story only tells what it wants people to hear. In short, its all politics and government bashing, racking up muck and creating the impression that railway stations are unsafe. A more honest story would have included DLR stations and tram stops - almost all of which were unstaffed from when services commenced. Indeed, most DLR stations also have steps down which people can fall, yet no-one complains. Open ticket barriers at stations are 'correct procedure'. It would be more newsworthy if they were closed when no-one was about. Simon How exactly is this "government bashing" when the Mayor of London is responsible for London Underground? How is it "muck raking" to draw attention to a local authority or government body that fails to do what it says it will?
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Post by norbitonflyer on Nov 29, 2017 7:56:39 GMT
How exactly is this "government bashing" when the Mayor of London is responsible for London Underground? Local government is still government.
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Post by holborncentral on Nov 29, 2017 11:04:51 GMT
I don't think Irish railway stations are staffed, at least my local one hasn't got many staff around. There is still a ticket office. It's been a couple of years since I last used it but the last time I was there I think there were one or two people hanging around, but not many. The smaller stations out in the countryside might be unstaffed. I'm not sure about the DART stations in Dublin as I've never used it, although I might have the chance because I might be moving there for work. Nobody seems to complain about it here or even say anything. Just out of curiosity - are Overground stations staffed?
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Post by aslefshrugged on Nov 29, 2017 11:43:38 GMT
Just out of curiosity - are Overground stations staffed? They are, TfL went to a lot of expense installing ticket barriers so they need staff to keep them in operation.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Nov 29, 2017 12:00:29 GMT
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Post by jamesb on Nov 29, 2017 13:59:59 GMT
To me, its more than just safety. Its about customer service. Pride in customer service? What about people who need assistance at a ticket machine? To add a travel discount? Vulnerable people?
I met an elderly lady at Roding Valley not so long ago who was 'testing' a help point out. She had knocked on the station supervisors door with no answer, and the information button just rang and rang. I asked her why she was testing out the help point and she told me that she had a bad experience the previous Saturday late evening with a group of youths who intimidated her. She was given a first class service and even offered a lift home. This time, she wanted to make sure that somebody would be at the station when she returned later that evening in case the same thing happened again. Since she couldn't find anyone, she decided that she would have to rush her shopping and get back before dark. I'm sure that she would have been preoccupied and anxious about her journey home.
It is people like the above example who suffer as a result of unmanned stations (or even worse, not knowing if/when the station is unmanned).
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Post by whistlekiller2000 on Nov 29, 2017 14:33:39 GMT
I don't think Irish railway stations are staffed, at least my local one hasn't got many staff around. There is still a ticket office. It's been a couple of years since I last used it but the last time I was there I think there were one or two people hanging around, but not many. The smaller stations out in the countryside might be unstaffed. I'm not sure about the DART stations in Dublin as I've never used it, although I might have the chance because I might be moving there for work. Nobody seems to complain about it here or even say anything. Just out of curiosity - are Overground stations staffed? In my ongoing (twice a year) experience of Ireland (Galway and Dublin) I can't say I ever heard any complaints from the Irish - about anything. The attitude to life shown was unbelievably positive and apart from the extortionate drink prices I'd be quite happy living there permanently.
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Post by holborncentral on Nov 29, 2017 14:40:34 GMT
I don't think Irish railway stations are staffed, at least my local one hasn't got many staff around. There is still a ticket office. It's been a couple of years since I last used it but the last time I was there I think there were one or two people hanging around, but not many. The smaller stations out in the countryside might be unstaffed. I'm not sure about the DART stations in Dublin as I've never used it, although I might have the chance because I might be moving there for work. Nobody seems to complain about it here or even say anything. Just out of curiosity - are Overground stations staffed? In my ongoing (twice a year) experience of Ireland (Galway and Dublin) I can't say I ever heard any complaints from the Irish - about anything. The attitude to life shown was unbelievably positive and apart from the extortionate drink prices I'd be quite happy living there permanently. I currently live in Galway, it's where I go to university. People are generally friendly. I must admit I don't know much about the drink prices though as I don't drink! Did you use the trains here?
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Post by aslefshrugged on Nov 29, 2017 14:41:43 GMT
To me, its more than just safety. Its about customer service. Pride in customer service? What about people who need assistance at a ticket machine? To add a travel discount? Vulnerable people? I met an elderly lady at Roding Valley not so long ago who was 'testing' a help point out. She had knocked on the station supervisors door with no answer, and the information button just rang and rang. I asked her why she was testing out the help point and she told me that she had a bad experience the previous Saturday late evening with a group of youths who intimidated her. She was given a first class service and even offered a lift home. This time, she wanted to make sure that somebody would be at the station when she returned later that evening in case the same thing happened again. Since she couldn't find anyone, she decided that she would have to rush her shopping and get back before dark. I'm sure that she would have been preoccupied and anxious about her journey home. It is people like the above example who suffer as a result of unmanned stations (or even worse, not knowing if/when the station is unmanned). When I went to pick my second half up on Monday at Loughton, around 19:11, a passenger had pressed the Help Point on the westbound platform and was stood waiting for an answer. It was ringing when I got to the top of the stairs, it was ringing when the passenger got onto a westbound train and it was still ringing when I left heading east. When I'd walked through the ticket hall the gates were open and there was no-one sat in the control room. When you consider the amount of money they spent installing Help Points on every station its laughable that there's now no one at the other end. According to the FFTF Stations Central Line Review (May 2014) Loughton has 5 CSS2s with 4 roving CSM3s covering Epping to Buckhurst Hill, back in the old days Loughton had 5 SS2s, 1 SAMF, 1 part time SAMF and 2 part time CSAs
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Post by whistlekiller2000 on Nov 29, 2017 14:50:47 GMT
In my ongoing (twice a year) experience of Ireland (Galway and Dublin) I can't say I ever heard any complaints from the Irish - about anything. The attitude to life shown was unbelievably positive and apart from the extortionate drink prices I'd be quite happy living there permanently. I currently live in Galway, it's where I go to university. People are generally friendly. I must admit I don't know much about the drink prices though as I don't drink! Did you use the trains here? Odd as it may seem, I rarely use trains anywhere now. I've used trains in Barcelona and my local station in Lincolnshire perhaps 5 or 6 times in 30 years and it's only when I go to London a few times per year that I use TfL (due to the crippling gridlock on the roads). In Ireland, using a train would be impractical for me for business reasons. On the subject of unattended stations, I'm lucky enough not to have to worry about it on the odd occasions I need to use public transport, being confident and able enough to battle through the machinery unassisted. For those who aren't I can imagine it could become quite a daunting prospect.
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Post by rsdworker on Nov 29, 2017 17:42:05 GMT
normally help points should been connected to Main control room if no one at station - its should been automatic connect to main control where they can get help if station staff isnt around - also other transport systems have help points - some have telephones (Warsaw metro has bright yellow telephones box) Holland (both metros) have help points with info and emergency however at unstaffed stations - there always one staff behind office as we got stuck because lift didnt work properly and staff came out from office its happened in rotterdam metro stockholm is always manned with one or two staff in ticket halls depends station size - sometimes large station has 5 staff or more behind glass but sometimes often see staff around on platforms russia - moscow has staff - at ticket hall and bottom of escalators finland has metro its has help points and stations are unmanned
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2017 17:52:03 GMT
To me, its more than just safety. Its about customer service. Pride in customer service? What about people who need assistance at a ticket machine? To add a travel discount? Vulnerable people? I met an elderly lady at Roding Valley not so long ago who was 'testing' a help point out. She had knocked on the station supervisors door with no answer, and the information button just rang and rang. I asked her why she was testing out the help point and she told me that she had a bad experience the previous Saturday late evening with a group of youths who intimidated her. She was given a first class service and even offered a lift home. This time, she wanted to make sure that somebody would be at the station when she returned later that evening in case the same thing happened again. Since she couldn't find anyone, she decided that she would have to rush her shopping and get back before dark. I'm sure that she would have been preoccupied and anxious about her journey home. It is people like the above example who suffer as a result of unmanned stations (or even worse, not knowing if/when the station is unmanned). When I went to pick my second half up on Monday at Loughton, around 19:11, a passenger had pressed the Help Point on the westbound platform and was stood waiting for an answer. It was ringing when I got to the top of the stairs, it was ringing when the passenger got onto a westbound train and it was still ringing when I left heading east. When I'd walked through the ticket hall the gates were open and there was no-one sat in the control room. When you consider the amount of money they spent installing Help Points on every station its laughable that there's now no one at the other end. According to the FFTF Stations Central Line Review (May 2014) Loughton has 5 CSS2s with 4 roving CSM3s covering Epping to Buckhurst Hill, back in the old days Loughton had 5 SS2s, 1 SAMF, 1 part time SAMF and 2 part time CSAs Probably meal break time - lone working stations rarely have meal break relief. I used to go off station - after notifying line control and neighbouring stations - otherwise I would not get a meal break. Short notice sickness or long term sickness leads to stations being left unstaffed as well as there just are not enough staff. I suspect at some point the concept of roving supervisors will come back into play (first fftf proposal) and lots of stations will be unstaffed outside of peak.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2017 20:37:20 GMT
THMP "Ticket Hall Modifications Programme" would have been a better title than FiT for the future I think..
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londoner
thinking on '73 stock
Posts: 478
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Post by londoner on Nov 29, 2017 20:54:10 GMT
To me, its more than just safety. Its about customer service. Pride in customer service? What about people who need assistance at a ticket machine? To add a travel discount? Vulnerable people? I met an elderly lady at Roding Valley not so long ago who was 'testing' a help point out. She had knocked on the station supervisors door with no answer, and the information button just rang and rang. I asked her why she was testing out the help point and she told me that she had a bad experience the previous Saturday late evening with a group of youths who intimidated her. She was given a first class service and even offered a lift home. This time, she wanted to make sure that somebody would be at the station when she returned later that evening in case the same thing happened again. Since she couldn't find anyone, she decided that she would have to rush her shopping and get back before dark. I'm sure that she would have been preoccupied and anxious about her journey home. It is people like the above example who suffer as a result of unmanned stations (or even worse, not knowing if/when the station is unmanned). I was at Alperton the other day and one of the cleaning crew operated the information button (or whatever). There was a ring for a minute or so before she gave up. Another instance, also at Alperton, one lad sat on the platform edge and began to pose for platforms. Nothing was done, no staff in sight. Even when there are staff, they give incorrect information (through no fault of their own). I have seen this on the Met line, both at Finchley Rd and Harrow, where trains get diverted and platform staff are not informed. There is a clear problem at TFL regarding station staff, but I suspect not a lot will happen. I must say that when staff are present, they always appear to do a professional job. It beggars belief how they can just decide to "reorganise" staff (aka make some redundant) and think everything will be the same. I'd love the know how much extra revenue they are losing having to leave ticket barriers open for a sustained period of time.
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