Odd train at Baker Street Today 12/02/18

[zcap]

Hi all,
In my convoluted adventures upon the underground today I arrived at Baker Street at around 1:30pm and went up to the Met Line platforms hoping to jump on a Southbound train to Euston Square. I looked northbound and saw a train stopped at the foot of Platform 4, showing no destination on the trains destination indicator. I waited for a while and the train didnt move. Announcements on platform 3 were telling us to go to platform 5 to "continue our journey". I hung around and the train remained in situ. It appeared to block the southbound approach and as such, no trains passed through platform 3.

My question... What happened?
I figured that the train mustve tripped on the outer blind trainstop. Was this so?

To continue on this point, do such events count as SPADs since there is no actual signal associated with the trainstop?

[MoreToJack]

Generally getting tripped on a blind train stop is seen as a performance issue (as no SPAD has technically occurred) but this will all depend on the exact circumstances. Immediate actions from all parties will generally follow the same procedure as a SPAD (indeed, most 'tripped in vicinity of' instances will), but it's worth noting that getting tripped in may not necessarily be the train operator's fault, even with a SPAD.

As an example, Edgware Road is fitted with a number of speed-controlled train stops on all platforms, allowing for adjacent moves to take place whilst negating the possibility of a side-swipe if a train did pass the starter at danger. The speed for these train stops, however, is variable, depending on what other moves have been set up and allowing headways to be maintained if there's no need for an adjacent move. The system isn't perfect and sometimes trains will get tripped on these train stops even if the speedometer is showing at or below the signed limit. In all instances the train is fully berthed, driver met and welfare checked and initial investigations made. Whilst it could be the result of excessive speed, it often isn't.

The same is true of many other speed- and approach-controlled train stops; they can sometimes be slow to lower, tripping trains even when they are being driven to the appropriate standard.

[North End]

Feb 13, 2018 1:34:05 GMT MoreToJack said:

Generally getting tripped on a blind train stop is seen as a performance issue (as no SPAD has technically occurred) but this will all depend on the exact circumstances. Immediate actions from all parties will generally follow the same procedure as a SPAD (indeed, most 'tripped in vicinity of' instances will), but it's worth noting that getting tripped in may not necessarily be the train operator's fault, even with a SPAD.

As an example, Edgware Road is fitted with a number of speed-controlled train stops on all platforms, allowing for adjacent moves to take place whilst negating the possibility of a side-swipe if a train did pass the starter at danger. The speed for these train stops, however, is variable, depending on what other moves have been set up and allowing headways to be maintained if there's no need for an adjacent move. The system isn't perfect and sometimes trains will get tripped on these train stops even if the speedometer is showing at or below the signed limit. In all instances the train is fully berthed, driver met and welfare checked and initial investigations made. Whilst it could be the result of excessive speed, it often isn't.

The same is true of many other speed- and approach-controlled train stops; they can sometimes be slow to lower, tripping trains even when they are being driven to the appropriate standard.

Edgware springs to mind - signed as 15 mph, but try doing anything above about 11-12 mph and guaranteed to hit one of the trainstops. The first one on Platform 2 used to be particularly dodgy.

As for reporting being tripped - in my view this is a rather grey area. There's nothing in the current Rule Book which specifically gives guidance one way or the other, just a vague rule about reporting "train incidents", whilst of course failing to define what a train incident actually is.

From past experience where I am, in reality I think few drivers used to report hitting a trainstop - the aforementioned one on Edgware Platform 2 used to get hit pretty often judging by the marks it used to have on it. By the letter of the law the controller should be informed in order to get the reset cord re-sealed by a car examiner, but few bothered.

No harm in reporting though to cover one's back - I remember one particular case when a train got tripped on a fox. The driver was well aware there were no stop signals in the area, so to avoid delay he reset and continued, and reported it once he was on the move. Unfortunately people started sticking their nose in, a download was done, and someone noticed that the location of the tripping was next to a signal. I won't post the number, but suffice to say it started with R. This one rumbled on for quite a few days before someone who knew what they were doing got hold of it!

The pitfall with not reporting is that as a driver you are then taking all the liability on yourself. Okay if you are 100% sure that you haven't hit a signal, but make the wrong judgement call and your rear will be bitten hard.

[goldenarrow]

I can't find any service related notices on that day and time frame, usually during off-peak hours Watford services predominantly use platform 1 with platform 4 hosting the occasional late running or "runs as required" services.

This might need clarifying but from memory NB signal A896 is situated close to the point work and so theoretically would it be possible for are train to come to a halt whilst straddling the junction? If it is possible for such a move to be permissible then getting gapped or at least stalling between the web of tacks leaving Baker Street could have explained your stranded train.

Sorry to be asking the obvious here zcap but did it have its headlights or taillights on?




Edit note: Scenario has been gauged as implausible and as such has been struck out. 

[MoreToJack]

Whilst theoretically possible it would be extremely unlikely that a train would be stopped at A896 on departure from Baker Street, and even more unlikely that it would get stalled there unless missing a significant number of shoes.

In any case, if that was the case it would have caused much more disruption than seems to have been reported, inevitably also impinging onto the C&H service as Met trains would have been unable to leave the City. That no disruption is noted suggests that no trains became stalled.

[zcap]

Thanks MoreToJack and North End for those answers. I wouldve thought it a bit harsh to treat it the same as a SPAD, unless of course a SPAD occurs. I remember reading somewhere that Whitechapels "old" layout was also particularly awful for trains tripping, much like Edgware road, with their delayed trainstops.

Feb 13, 2018 16:28:27 GMT goldenarrow said:

Sorry to be asking the obvious here zcap but did it have its headlights or taillights on?

As far as I remember, the headlights were on (however i'm not 100% certain). I remember seeing someone walking around the cab. The saloon lights were on too, so the train was on juice. From my position I couldnt make out whether the rear of the train was clear of no.7 points or not. A train was waiting on platform 2 (northbound) during my wait, but no trains came into platform 3.

[PiccNT]

In our stock defect book for the 1973 stock, we have a specific instruction if the front tripcock is operated. "You must not move your train until you have received authority to do so". So although there is nothing in the Rule Book, that is a standard instruction that we must follow on our line.