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Post by melikepie on May 14, 2018 0:51:42 GMT
Well maybe this question is too early but in the future with the New Tube for London introduced and planned to be rolled out on the Bakerloo Line, there could be a potential snag. As the Bakerloo Line shares tracks with London Overground, how exactly would it work mixing manual and driverless trainson the same line? If it did happen, that would be an interesting sight
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on May 14, 2018 1:20:37 GMT
There are two types of factors to consider - technological and human.
Technologically the only barrier to automatic and manual trains sharing the same track is that the signalling system knows the location of all the trains. For signalling purposes there is no difference between a supervised fully automatic train and a driverless automatic train. As long as the signalling system knows where the manual trains are with a known level of precision (which doesn't have to be the same as for the automatic trains) everything will work fine - the manual trains will get movement authority in large, fixed blocks from lineside colour light signals at the same time the automatic trains are getting movement authority over smaller, moving blocks from data transmitted to the train.
The are obviously risks when the signalling system loses a train, but they are no different to any other ATO operation for the automatic trains. For the manual trains there would probably just need to be some way of alerting the driver that their train is no longer communicating and a procedure about what to do when that happens.
Human factors will dictate what level of risk is regarded as permissible and so whether it can be run at all.
It also means procedures to deal with all the forseeable "what happens if..." scenarios.
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Post by principlesdesigner on May 14, 2018 3:08:18 GMT
The Bakerloo line is not planned to be operated as a driverless line
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Post by aslefshrugged on May 14, 2018 7:40:44 GMT
When TfL issued the invitation to tender for the "New Tune for London" in January 2016 the description said that driverless operation would only commence once PEDs had been fitted, It also stated that the Bakerloo would not be getting PEDs "due to interoperation of services with national rail at the northern end of the line" which suggests the Bakerloo would not be driverless
There was no mention of PEDS in last weeks invitation to tender for the "Deep Level Tube" so it seems to support Khan's statement from February this year that plans for driverless operation have been scrapped.
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Post by MoreToJack on May 14, 2018 9:24:58 GMT
Whilst it does not involve driverless trains it is worth pointing out that this is pretty much identical to how the underlay and overlay areas of 4LM are intended to work - manual trains running on lineside signals mixing with automatic trains. It's not particularly hard to do (in theory...).
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Post by superteacher on May 14, 2018 11:09:59 GMT
I've renamed and moved this thread as I feel a general discussion about the Bakerloo line upgrade would be more useful.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2018 11:35:06 GMT
Whilst it does not involve driverless trains it is worth pointing out that this is pretty much identical to how the underlay and overlay areas of 4LM are intended to work - manual trains running on lineside signals mixing with automatic trains. It's not particularly hard to do (in theory...). They haven't done it yet  |
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Post by toby on May 14, 2018 12:40:05 GMT
I've seen people reading into the longer installation period for the W&C line as including time to switch over to driverless trains. It seems like avoiding saying that now helps with the unions. We may know more when they announce the bid winner this month.
Fantasy: my post in FPRIAS solves this.
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Post by spsmiler on May 14, 2018 22:36:49 GMT
Driverless trains often mean that passengers can sit at the front and watch the line ahead. Of all the lines the Bakerloo would be the most interesting... such a wide variety of trains.
The trains will not be unstaffed, and as we know automated trains with roving staff but no platform doors is well proven here in London (DLR!)
Simon
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Post by superteacher on May 14, 2018 22:57:18 GMT
As has been stated, there are no plans to operate the Bakerloo with driverless trains.
So any such discussion will need to happen in RIPAS and not in this thread. Thanks.
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Post by stationless on May 17, 2018 23:07:23 GMT
On the subject of PEDs, I imagine that they will be deployed on the BLE, to bring it up to modern safety standards as per the JLE.
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