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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2018 16:51:05 GMT
T is technical A is adminsitrative
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Post by aslefshrugged on Sept 28, 2018 6:13:02 GMT
Last week I was chatting to one of the Piccadilly line Service Controllers. He was saying that one of the T/Ops complaints was that they don’t like the way the Controllers speak to them or give instructions over the radio. The RMT train side reps insisted that all Piccadilly line Controllers go on a course on ‘how to speak to people’ or something of that ilk. However, the Controllers with their RMT and TESSA reps are refusing point blank to go on any courses. They believe they’ve done nothing wrong and are just doing their job. This could run and run. Point of order its TSSA as in Transport Salaried Staff Association not TESSA. If the Service Controllers on the Piccadilly are anything like those on the Central then some of them certainly need training as they don't seem to have had much practise communicating with other human beings (or maybe they consider drivers to be a lower form of life)
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Post by aslefshrugged on Sept 28, 2018 6:22:02 GMT
Train staff will not strike and lose money if they feel the dispute is not justified Unions will not call strikes if they feel there is a risk of staff working through it after seeing both sides. Nonsense. The union can't call a strike unless it gets a "yes" vote from more than 50% of the members balloted (not just 50% of those members who bother to vote) and if staff didn't feel the strike was justified they wouldn't vote for it.
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Post by rheostar on Sept 28, 2018 9:08:14 GMT
Last week I was chatting to one of the Piccadilly line Service Controllers. He was saying that one of the T/Ops complaints was that they don’t like the way the Controllers speak to them or give instructions over the radio. The RMT train side reps insisted that all Piccadilly line Controllers go on a course on ‘how to speak to people’ or something of that ilk. However, the Controllers with their RMT and TESSA reps are refusing point blank to go on any courses. They believe they’ve done nothing wrong and are just doing their job. This could run and run. Point of order its TSSA as in Transport Salaried Staff Association not TESSA. If the Service Controllers on the Piccadilly are anything like those on the Central then some of them certainly need training as they don't seem to have had much practise communicating with other human beings (or maybe they consider drivers to be a lower form of life) Re TSSA....oops! You'd never think that I was a member! Re controllers - That's simply not true as most of the Picc controllers are ex Picc T/Ops.
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Post by drainrat on Sept 28, 2018 10:52:14 GMT
Train staff will not strike and lose money if they feel the dispute is not justified Unions will not call strikes if they feel there is a risk of staff working through it after seeing both sides. Nonsense. The union can't call a strike unless it gets a "yes" vote from more than 50% of the members balloted (not just 50% of those members who bother to vote) and if staff didn't feel the strike was justified they wouldn't vote for it. And usually, the ballot only occurs cause the branches have asked for one. In a society where everyone bangs on about 'democratic process', I have to laugh when the media has a dig at one of the most democratic processes we have in Britain 😂 Re TSSA....oops! You'd never think that I was a member! Re controllers - That's simply not true as most of the Picc controllers are ex Picc T/Ops. Oh yes it is!
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Sept 28, 2018 11:06:54 GMT
rheostar remember that aslefshrugged is talking about controllers on the Central line who are not the same people as the controllers on the Piccadilly line. It's possible that one set are better than the other. On both lines there will of course be variation with some controllers better than others.
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Post by drainrat on Sept 28, 2018 12:16:58 GMT
There is only 1 or 2 of the Central line Info assistants that I can really understand, the latest fella is very well spoken, though I don't remember his tones being that clipped when he was a driver down the drain
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hobbayne
RIP John Lennon and George Harrison
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Post by hobbayne on Sept 28, 2018 23:43:54 GMT
There is only 1 or 2 of the Central line Info assistants that I can really understand, the latest fella is very well spoken, though I don't remember his tones being that clipped when he was a driver down the drain Secondment??
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londoner
thinking on '73 stock
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Post by londoner on Sept 28, 2018 23:47:40 GMT
Do TfL use the line closure during strikes to carry out any track or signal maintenance?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2018 23:53:16 GMT
No traction current is on as usual and goes off at the normal times
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Post by Dstock7080 on Sept 29, 2018 4:52:37 GMT
Early shift trains starting normally from Northfields and other locations.
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Post by drainrat on Sept 29, 2018 8:14:26 GMT
There is only 1 or 2 of the Central line Info assistants that I can really understand, the latest fella is very well spoken, though I don't remember his tones being that clipped when he was a driver down the drain Secondment?? Yes, was a bit messed about, hope he gets what he wants, he's a good guy!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2018 8:16:08 GMT
What do the RMT want? Usually in a strike there are demands (for a pay rise, a change of policy or whatever) to be negotiated; as far as I can tell these strikes are because the union don't like the management and I can't see what they want to do about it.
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Post by aslefshrugged on Sept 29, 2018 8:18:15 GMT
Yes, was a bit messed about, hope he gets what he wants, he's a good guy! Let's hope he doesn't succumb to the virulent contagion that seems to infect everyone at Wood Lane which makes you say everything twice, everything twice. When did Tube drivers go on strike over pay in the last 20 years? As per usual this strike is over management failing to honour previous agreements, some of which were negotiated after a previous strike.
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Post by superteacher on Sept 29, 2018 8:18:47 GMT
What do the RMT want? Usually in a strike there are demands (for a pay rise, a change of policy or whatever) to be negotiated; as far as I can tell these strikes are because the union don't like the management and I can't see what they want to do about it. I think this is the issue - most people don't really know what it's about, which doesn't really help their cause as viewed by the general public.
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Post by commuter on Sept 29, 2018 8:24:38 GMT
What do the RMT want? Usually in a strike there are demands (for a pay rise, a change of policy or whatever) to be negotiated; as far as I can tell these strikes are because the union don't like the management and I can't see what they want to do about it. Nobody actually seems to know what it is about. The strike ballot was carried out at the start of the summer and dates were announced in July. Talks were held and a list of actions were agreed, which are either closed or going to be closed soon with actions in place. So many Operators have been asking DRMs and TMs why they are supposed to be on strike. It is truly dumbfounding.
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Post by drainrat on Sept 29, 2018 19:41:08 GMT
Yes, was a bit messed about, hope he gets what he wants, he's a good guy! Let's hope he doesn't succumb to the virulent contagion that seems to infect everyone at Wood Lane which makes you say everything twice, everything twice. When did Tube drivers go on strike over pay in the last 20 years? As per usual this strike is over management failing to honour previous agreements, some of which were negotiated after a previous strike. I think there was once when a pay deal was imposed without negotiation, could've been about 2001, I know there was a ballot, but can't for life of me remember if there was a strike. Was the 'Royal Mail' directors, Mason & Mason, they also took out full page ads in both Metro and Evening Standard to tell everyone how much we earned, how many hours we worked, annual leave etc. which anyone who could do simple calculations, could see didn't add up....
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Post by drainrat on Sept 29, 2018 19:44:11 GMT
What do the RMT want? Usually in a strike there are demands (for a pay rise, a change of policy or whatever) to be negotiated; as far as I can tell these strikes are because the union don't like the management and I can't see what they want to do about it. Nobody actually seems to know what it is about. The strike ballot was carried out at the start of the summer and dates were announced in July. Talks were held and a list of actions were agreed, which are either closed or going to be closed soon with actions in place. So many Operators have been asking DRMs and TMs why they are supposed to be on strike. It is truly dumbfounding. Wow, you know a bit about it 🤔
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Post by PiccNT on Sept 30, 2018 12:52:45 GMT
I listened to a rather flustered RMT official called Leach being interviewed by Nick Ferrari. He was confused about the ballot results but also threw into the mix that drivers were being pulled off trains to be interviewed about their attendance record. That was a new addition to the list as far as I'm aware. Being a T/Op on the Picc, I personally have had no problems with any Controllers but when Connect was in duplex and we heard both sides of the conversation, I'm not surprised that on the odd occasion, a Controller snapped as they are at times severely provoked.
It does amaze me that the guys with the loudest mouths seem to have the thinnest skin. If you can't take it, don't dish it out! One of the other issues is the reps that aren't on full time release at Arnos Grove have had their ad hoc release time reduced. So probably, substitute "A Complete breakdown in Industrial Relations" with "They are making me drive a train!
As I think I mentioned above somewhere, most drivers I speak to have no idea what it's about. Will be interesting to see RMT's next move.
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Post by linus on Sept 30, 2018 18:21:14 GMT
So all these drivers are striking and inconveniencing the public without knowing why? In that case, why are they striking? Is it because of intimidation and bullying by their union colleagues? Where I work intimidation and bullying mean instant dismissal.
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Post by PiccNT on Oct 1, 2018 0:45:15 GMT
The union calls the strike and the members strike, not many questions asked. That's how it works for the first strike and the other union, in this case ASLEF, normally don't cross picket lines. However, LU T/Ops cannot do voluntary overtime so there is no way of making up your money unlike the other TOC's. So when (if) the next strike is called, some people may think twice about withdrawing their labour and the other union may not be so keen to stay out. It's quite true to say that in previous disputes, there has been an element of intimidation but as this strike was pretty solid, I've not heard of anything untoward taking place.
That's not to say of course that some people stayed away just in case they were the victim of unsavoury behaviour.
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Post by aslefshrugged on Oct 1, 2018 3:20:49 GMT
So all these drivers are striking and inconveniencing the public without knowing why? In that case, why are they striking? Is it because of intimidation and bullying by their union colleagues? Where I work intimidation and bullying mean instant dismissal. 420 RMT drivers were balloted, 298 voted (70.9%), 285 voted in favour of a strike (67.9%). The ballot is done by post so no bullying, two thirds wanted to strike and the other third accepts the democratic decision. ASLEF drivers can cross the picket line if they chose to but I suspect a lot of them sympathise with RMTs grievances.
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Post by aslefshrugged on Oct 1, 2018 3:30:33 GMT
I listened to a rather flustered RMT official called Leach being interviewed by Nick Ferrari. He was confused about the ballot results but also threw into the mix that drivers were being pulled off trains to be interviewed about their attendance record. That was a new addition to the list as far as I'm aware. Being a T/Op on the Picc, I personally have had no problems with any Controllers but when Connect was in duplex and we heard both sides of the conversation, I'm not surprised that on the odd occasion, a Controller snapped as they are at times severely provoked. It does amaze me that the guys with the loudest mouths seem to have the thinnest skin. If you can't take it, don't dish it out! One of the other issues is the reps that aren't on full time release at Arnos Grove have had their ad hoc release time reduced. So probably, substitute "A Complete breakdown in Industrial Relations" with "They are making me drive a train! As I think I mentioned above somewhere, most drivers I speak to have no idea what it's about. Will be interesting to see RMT's next move. John Leach is RMT Regional Organiser, London Transport Region 11, was RMT President from 2006 to 2009, used to be a Station Supervisor on the Central Line. He stood for General Secretary in 2014, I think he came 2nd or 3rd.
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Post by commuter on Oct 1, 2018 6:30:41 GMT
So all these drivers are striking and inconveniencing the public without knowing why? In that case, why are they striking? Is it because of intimidation and bullying by their union colleagues? Where I work intimidation and bullying mean instant dismissal. 420 RMT drivers were balloted, 298 voted (70.9%), 285 voted in favour of a strike (67.9%). The ballot is done by post so no bullying, two thirds wanted to strike and the other third accepts the democratic decision. ASLEF drivers can cross the picket line if they chose to but I suspect a lot of them sympathise with RMTs grievances. However; this strike ballot took place earlier in the summer. At this time there was a clear and defined list of issues in place. A strike was called for early July and this did not take place because an agreement was made at ACAS with a plan for resolution in place. You correctly state that the Members voted, that is true, however, they voted for a strike based on a list of issues that have since been resolved or are in process of being resolved. The strike last week is therefore using this existing mandate for a strike but with new issues inserted as a reason - issues nobody seems to know what they are!
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Post by aslefshrugged on Oct 1, 2018 7:21:56 GMT
420 RMT drivers were balloted, 298 voted (70.9%), 285 voted in favour of a strike (67.9%). The ballot is done by post so no bullying, two thirds wanted to strike and the other third accepts the democratic decision. ASLEF drivers can cross the picket line if they chose to but I suspect a lot of them sympathise with RMTs grievances. However; this strike ballot took place earlier in the summer. At this time there was a clear and defined list of issues in place. A strike was called for early July and this did not take place because an agreement was made at ACAS with a plan for resolution in place. You correctly state that the Members voted, that is true, however, they voted for a strike based on a list of issues that have since been resolved or are in process of being resolved. The strike last week is therefore using this existing mandate for a strike but with new issues inserted as a reason - issues nobody seems to know what they are! From the RMT website: www.rmt.org.uk/news/piccadilly-line-strike-suspended/That doesn't say that the issues had been resolved, rather it seems that management have once again agreed to do something at ACAS and then failed to honour their commitments. If RMT had tried to use the strike ballot in June for a separate dispute management would have gone to court to have the strike declared illegal, as they didn't I think it safe to say that this is the same dispute.
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Post by PiccNT on Oct 1, 2018 11:19:48 GMT
Are settlements agreed at ACAS not legally binding? If so, surely the RMT could take London Underground to court for not implementing what was agreed?
In terms of the reasons as listed above, I can only speak for what I see at my depot. We have no vacancies on the establishment. All of our absences, apart from annual leave are caused by drivers being off sick or on alternative duties. I think this comes from drivers complaining that they have to cover full duties consistently when they are spare. So basically, if everyone came into work, there would be no problem with driver numbers.
I stated above about the Controllers. I can't comment on parts of the day when I'm not on duty but for 99.9% of the time, the Controllers are polite and carry out a challenging role in a professional way. I also mentioned about obstruction of trade union duties. It seems some of the reps at Arnos Grove have had their release time reduced and have to drive a train which should in effect help point two! Same goes for the last point.
As also mentioned, not sure what the RMT's next step is.
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Post by aslefshrugged on Oct 1, 2018 12:01:43 GMT
"Are settlements agreed at ACAS not legally binding?" I'll assume that you've not been with the company very long but nothing agreed at ACAS is legally binding, if they were we wouldn't have these problems! If management still refuse to address the issues the next step is another strike, maybe coordinate it with other lines. RMT Central Line drivers are currently balloting for strike action over similar grievances management with the additional gripe over a Leytonstone driver who got sacked after a dodgy drugs and alcohol test, that closes on Tuesday 9th October so the result should be announced by the end of next week. ASLEF drivers have already voted to strike on the Central Line so you could have both unions striking together. (More about the Central line strike can be found on this thread - MoreToJack)
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Post by drainrat on Oct 1, 2018 15:22:14 GMT
So all these drivers are striking and inconveniencing the public without knowing why? In that case, why are they striking? Is it because of intimidation and bullying by their union colleagues? Where I work intimidation and bullying mean instant dismissal. Was waiting for this one to come along with the old narrative of assumptions 🙄
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Post by drainrat on Oct 1, 2018 15:47:36 GMT
Are settlements agreed at ACAS not legally binding? If so, surely the RMT could take London Underground to court for not implementing what was agreed? In terms of the reasons as listed above, I can only speak for what I see at my depot. We have no vacancies on the establishment. All of our absences, apart from annual leave are caused by drivers being off sick or on alternative duties. I think this comes from drivers complaining that they have to cover full duties consistently when they are spare. So basically, if everyone came into work, there would be no problem with driver numbers. Are you certain about driver numbers?.....At Leytonstone, after displacements, our depot coverage was -2, so if everyone came to work, taking in to consideration AL, block training etc. We were 2 drivers short, that's nothing to do with the 'sick and light duty' narrative being spun and everything to do with INSUFFICIENT NUMBERS
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Post by brigham on Oct 2, 2018 7:43:25 GMT
So what was the outcome of the latest RMT strike? Who has won?, or is it too early to assess the results? Perhaps ‘everybody has won, and all must have prizes.’
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