|
Post by MoreToJack on Oct 2, 2018 15:57:49 GMT
Posts regarding the forthcoming Central line strike have been moved to their own thread. Please keep this thread for matters regarding to the recent Piccadilly line industrial action only.
|
|
|
Post by whistlekiller2000 on Oct 2, 2018 19:52:55 GMT
Whilst we encourage discussion on most subjects pertaining to the Underground and its associated systems we must make it clear that debate on sensitive subjects like industrial action will be closely monitored and any indication of DD Members falling out over workplace or consumer grievances will be viewed in a negative light by the moderators and administrators. As long as it remains cordial and doesn't descend to political party or politician bashing it'll be OK. This guidance, which requires no further comment, will also appear on the other strike related threads and on the main Forum Announcement board.
|
|
|
Post by drainrat on Oct 3, 2018 18:11:33 GMT
The union calls the strike and the members strike, not many questions asked. That's how it works for the first strike and the other union, in this case ASLEF, normally don't cross picket lines. However, LU T/Ops cannot do voluntary overtime so there is no way of making up your money unlike the other TOC's. So when (if) the next strike is called, some people may think twice about withdrawing their labour and the other union may not be so keen to stay out. It's quite true to say that in previous disputes, there has been an element of intimidation but as this strike was pretty solid, I've not heard of anything untoward taking place. That's not to say of course that some people stayed away just in case they were the victim of unsavoury behaviour. Really, so the unions call the strike and no one has any say in it, is that true?
|
|
|
Post by PiccNT on Oct 4, 2018 9:59:20 GMT
The union calls the strike and the members strike, not many questions asked. That's how it works for the first strike and the other union, in this case ASLEF, normally don't cross picket lines. However, LU T/Ops cannot do voluntary overtime so there is no way of making up your money unlike the other TOC's. So when (if) the next strike is called, some people may think twice about withdrawing their labour and the other union may not be so keen to stay out. It's quite true to say that in previous disputes, there has been an element of intimidation but as this strike was pretty solid, I've not heard of anything untoward taking place. That's not to say of course that some people stayed away just in case they were the victim of unsavoury behaviour. Really, so the unions call the strike and no one has any say in it, is that true? Apathy. 122 T/Op's didn't even both to vote and 68% of total numbers voted for action. Of course anyone can have a say in it but most don't bother but will generally follow the strike instruction.
|
|
|
Post by drainrat on Oct 4, 2018 10:42:05 GMT
Really, so the unions call the strike and no one has any say in it, is that true? Apathy. 122 T/Op's didn't even both to vote and 68% of total numbers voted for action. Of course anyone can have a say in it but most don't bother but will generally follow the strike instruction. But that's not the unions calling the strike though. The way it works is, the members have problems.....they tell their local reps......the reps raise it at level/tier 1 staff meetings......if unresolved, raised to Functional.......if persists, it's discussed at the branch meetings, where a vote is held to ballot, or not as the case may be........ballot is held and result is the democratic process of not just one, but two votes. The members ALWAYS call the strike, the union isn't a separate entity from the members, which is always what is implied 🙄 There is a framework agreement we work under as T/ops, it's an umbrella agreement to make sure over 3200 drivers across the combine fit into the changing working practices post Company plan in the early 90s, (some of us still remember it 🙄). We used to work RDs and agreed overtime, but the company plan wanted more rigidity and so negotiations took place and the Professional Train Operators Agreement (PTOA) took shape. Now, the framework allowed for the local negotiations of agreements that were quirky to each local depot, it gave us all the level 1 committees to discuss local issues so they can be resolved locally before they became a bigger problem, Now, this is where both our lines current issues lay, all your local hard fought agreements that drivers, which I must add, are good for the depots collective health, are now being ripped up. The management have decided they don't want to abide by the agreements, not interested to discuss them, and will change practice as it suits, not because of necessity but because they are managers......you get my gist. Trouble is, we have a different mindset among drivers now, who are hellbent on going backwards. We are where we are I'm afraid 😔 Personally, I believe things will progressively get worse, we have a travelling public who are starting to see a deterioration of sorts in service, and being told that it's due to 'staff absence' which they translate as us just being lazy, whilst we know that it's because they've run down pools so much, yet sadly too many drivers buy the propaganda and blame their colleagues being sick, lame and lazy, when the truth is its nothing to do with that, attendance levels havent changed over past 20 years, but if you create poor coverage then logic says cancellations will follow, yet TfL in its transformation from public service to corporate wolf don't really care what it does, so long as it gets BIGGER! Unfortunately, one of the Trade Unions did a Faustian deal back in 2009 - unwittingly, they were put between a rock and a hard place, in their eyes - management played their 'checkmate' move and gave them an avenue out, and they signed the deal, which was twofold, it was an agreement covering rosters at every location, secondly, there was evidence that RMT had the majority membership of train drivers at the time, which wasn't reflected on the Trains Functional Council (TFC). We are under the onslaught of repercussions from those deals done to this day, and will be long in to the future, it's one of the reasons you and I are currently working on lines under local striking actions. And I forgot to add the other condition was accepting first Olympic offer with no consultation with the branches, it was accepted before the secretaries knew there was even an offer. Long winded, but hope it explains predicament somewhat. On another point, regarding RD/overtime working, if you lost days pay through industrial action, you wouldn't just be able to recuperate it by working a RD, you know that's? You make a choice on whether you want to do RD/overtime at start of proposal and then you go on a link, that you stay on, not a case of 'oh, I think I fancy working RD/overtime next week!'. The links work like the train movements work, you don't just go from working at Arnos Grove one week and decide you want to turn up for work at Queens Park the next. As for apathy, I agree, and anti TU laws will punish, but on central line, ballots have been near 100% turnouts. Careful what you wish for, you just might get it!
|
|
|
Post by banana99 on Oct 5, 2018 21:33:29 GMT
I am a great believer in Unions. Without them we would not have the modern society we have today However, are they any specifics re "your local hard fought agreements that drivers, which I must add, are good for the depots collective health, are now being ripped up. The management have decided they don't want to abide by the agreements, not interested to discuss them, and will change practice as it suits, not because of necessity but because they are managers......you get my gist. Trouble is, we have a different mindset among drivers now, who are hellbent on going backwards. We are where we are I'm afraid" It seems that hard information on both the Central and Piccadilly line disputes is hard to come by. "Long winded, but hope it explains predicament somewhat." No, not really. And what is an RD please?
|
|
Chris M
Global Moderator
Forum Quizmaster
Always happy to receive quiz ideas and pictures by email or PM
Posts: 19,358
|
Post by Chris M on Oct 5, 2018 23:27:59 GMT
From the context, I believe an RD to be a rest day.
|
|
|
Post by drainrat on Oct 7, 2018 19:41:39 GMT
Yes, RD= rest day
|
|
|
Post by PiccNT on Oct 12, 2018 15:26:52 GMT
|
|
|
Post by banana99 on Oct 13, 2018 18:24:52 GMT
I've still not seen any concrete stated about what is in dispute. I've read it is not implementing a previously agreement, but what is that? That and "contempt for our members" - well how exactly? Does anyone know?
|
|
|
Post by superteacher on Oct 13, 2018 18:36:37 GMT
I've still not seen any concrete stated about what is in dispute. I've read it is not implementing a previously agreement, but what is that? That and "contempt for our members" - well how exactly? Does anyone know? Agreed. It’s all very vague, which makes gaining support from the public very difficult.
|
|
|
Post by spsmiler on Oct 16, 2018 21:18:53 GMT
Can I confirm, if what I saw on the TV news is correct the next strike will start on Wednesday 6th November at midday and extend in to Thursday?
If so, then my journey home after an early morning arrival at Heathrow on Thursday will have to be via the Heathrow Connect / TfL Rail service. With a bit of luck I will even be able to touch-in before the morning peak fare begins!
Of course we are weeks away from this - so things may have been resolved by then.
Simon
|
|
|
Post by aslefshrugged on Oct 17, 2018 6:37:20 GMT
RMT members will not book on for duty "between 12:00 hours on Wednesday 7th November 2018 and 12:00 hours on Thursday 8th November 2018" so its unlikely there will be any trains before 1pm on Thursday. Piccadilly Line tube drivers to strike again
|
|
|
Post by PiccNT on Oct 17, 2018 8:29:04 GMT
At Cockfosters, the first book on after 12pm is at 15:18. The other three depots have duties that start just after 12pm. From what I hear, there is less enthusiasm to strike again for what seems to be trivial issues.
|
|
|
Post by banana99 on Oct 17, 2018 19:41:11 GMT
At Cockfosters, the first book on after 12pm is at 15:18. The other three depots have duties that start just after 12pm. From what I hear, there is less enthusiasm to strike again for what seems to be trivial issues. Have you been communicated to as to what the issues actually are? It's very difficult to tell from this side of the fence.
|
|
|
Post by PiccNT on Oct 18, 2018 9:41:55 GMT
At Cockfosters, the first book on after 12pm is at 15:18. The other three depots have duties that start just after 12pm. From what I hear, there is less enthusiasm to strike again for what seems to be trivial issues. Have you been communicated to as to what the issues actually are? It's very difficult to tell from this side of the fence. Not totally. It would seem the RMT reps at Arnos Grove object to having to fill out a form to request release time as that isn't a negotiated procedure. It also seems that some drivers, after provoking our friendly Controllers, don't like the response they get so that's unacceptable. Management clamping down on non-attendance in an alleged draconian manner is also part of it. Doesn't quite seem serious enough for so many people to lose so much money over. The RMT it seems are apoplectic about the decision by Aslef to strike over the J door issue for whatever reason. I'm not convinced that so many drivers that have already lost money will be willing to lose 2 more days, one for the next RMT Picc strike and not crossing picket lines for the Aslef one.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2018 10:58:57 GMT
Remember you do have a choice not to strike no one puts a gun to your head
|
|
cso
Posts: 1,042
|
Post by cso on Oct 31, 2018 13:22:57 GMT
I've had a very confusing email from TfL about Industrial Action today:
Subject: Strike on Piccadilly, Central and Hamersmith & City lines
"Planned strike action by ASLEF and RMT train operators could mean little or no service on Central and Waterloo & City lines on Wednesday 7 November, and no Piccadilly line service from the afternoon of 7 November for 24 hours"
They seem unable to decide which lines may be affected, but I suspect the body to be more accurate.
|
|
|
Post by superteacher on Oct 31, 2018 14:14:58 GMT
I've had a very confusing email from TfL about Industrial Action today: Subject: Strike on Piccadilly, Central and Hamersmith & City lines "Planned strike action by ASLEF and RMT train operators could mean little or no service on Central and Waterloo & City lines on Wednesday 7 November, and no Piccadilly line service from the afternoon of 7 November for 24 hours" They seem unable to decide which lines may be affected, but I suspect the body to be more accurate. Yes, definitely W&C rather than H&C. Good to see that proof reading is alive and well at TFL!
|
|
|
Post by superteacher on Nov 6, 2018 13:57:49 GMT
Tomorrow’s strike has been called off.
|
|