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Post by d7666 on Oct 8, 2018 16:21:54 GMT
Picc line RAT running as train 730 was at least planned to have been available from start day today (I have no idea if it actually was). ((Planned workings include two trips to Uxbridge this year.))
Are the same cars as last year used or different ones?
I did search other threads to see if been posted yet but not found anything.
-- Nick
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Post by superteacher on Oct 8, 2018 16:35:00 GMT
Is the Picc operating s special timetable this year during leaf fall?
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Post by spsmiler on Oct 8, 2018 16:56:30 GMT
I've seen timetable information for the converted D stock and 1962 tube stock RAT's, but nothing about the Piccadilly Line Rat.
I am surprised to hear that the latter will be visiting Uxbridge, as I would have thought that the D stock RAT would be doing that. Ditto the route to Acton via Ealing Common, etc, as I thought that whilst S stock is banned from there, D stock was known to have travelled that way, albeit when Ealing Broadway bound trains accepted a wrong signal and found themselves travelling towards Rayners Lane, etc.
Simon
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Post by norbitonflyer on Oct 8, 2018 17:07:45 GMT
I've seen timetable information for the converted D stock and 1962 tube stock RAT's, but nothing about the Piccadilly Line Rat. I am surprised to hear that the latter will be visiting Uxbridge, as I would have thought that the D stock RAT would be doing that. Ditto the route to Acton via Ealing Common, etc, as I thought that whilst S stock is banned from there, D stock was known to have travelled that way, albeit when Ealing Broadway bound trains accepted a wrong signal and found themselves travelling towards Rayners Lane, etc. Simon D stock was never supposed to take the South Harrow line, and had to be very cautious at certain bridges should it find itself there by mistake. The clearances may be even tighter now. I don't know if D stock was ever cleared for the Uxbridge branch anyway. But I would guess that which RAT does the Uxbridge branch is more to do with which one has the greater workload. There's an awful lot of the SSL network to cover!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2018 17:15:28 GMT
If the D RAT goes there via Hanger Lane Junction the train op will need to press a engineers train plunger to enable WM21 to clear which is the route to towards North Ealing.
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Post by fish7373 on Oct 8, 2018 18:23:27 GMT
The RAT was out to day on test and the same units as last year.
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Post by MoreToJack on Oct 8, 2018 19:29:38 GMT
The D stock is cleared to run to Uxbridge and makes a couple of trips there. The 73 west-end RAT also makes Uxbridge trips, as well as a trip to Ruislip siding and Rayners Lane siding. The mitigation is specifically for the section between Acton and Rayners Lane, but pathing complications means that it is required to run to Uxbridge. Additional mitigation on the Met, therefore, is not a bad thing - remember this already happens on the Met Main with the additional Network Rail water-jetting RHTT.
D stock can run via South Harrow but, as this is Piccadilly line territory, is not covered by the Met's mitigation strategies. Whilst the A stock did make a handful of trips that way in 2016 and 2017, these were ad-hoc due to the poor conditions and only when it could be spared from the Met - it did usually cause a path on the Met to be cancelled.
Notably, no RATs run into Uxbridge sidings this year (because direct entry from Hillingdon no longer exists!), and the west end Picc RAT also does not make a trip to Hammersmith.
The east end RAT is also up and running, between Cockfosters and Arnos Grove.
RAT = Rail Adhesion Train RHTT = Railhead Treatment Train
...effectively two different words for the same thing, although LU's do not have the ability to water jet.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2018 20:28:08 GMT
D78 RAT definitely went to Uxbridge today, saw it returning from Uxbridge after half 4.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2018 17:40:33 GMT
RAT RHTT D Stock Train 710 was seen working Neasden Depot to Amersham LUL today
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2018 20:55:10 GMT
If the D RAT goes there via Hanger Lane Junction the train op will need to press a engineers train plunger to enable WM21 to clear which is the route to towards North Ealing. Thought this was only for long trains. The D stock, being 5 cars now, should be ok?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2018 20:57:19 GMT
I've seen timetable information for the converted D stock and 1962 tube stock RAT's, but nothing about the Piccadilly Line Rat. I am surprised to hear that the latter will be visiting Uxbridge, as I would have thought that the D stock RAT would be doing that. Ditto the route to Acton via Ealing Common, etc, as I thought that whilst S stock is banned from there, D stock was known to have travelled that way, albeit when Ealing Broadway bound trains accepted a wrong signal and found themselves travelling towards Rayners Lane, etc. Simon D stock was never supposed to take the South Harrow line, and had to be very cautious at certain bridges should it find itself there by mistake. The clearances may be even tighter now. I don't know if D stock was ever cleared for the Uxbridge branch anyway. But I would guess that which RAT does the Uxbridge branch is more to do with which one has the greater workload. There's an awful lot of the SSL network to cover! The D stock travels from Acton Works to Neasden from time to time. Literally 15mph under all bridges on the section. The D78 RAT goes to Uxbridge two times a day.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2018 20:58:35 GMT
RAT RHTT D Stock Train 710 was seen working Neasden Depot to Amersham LUL today The D stock is the only RAT this year to run every one of its booked paths except one this Tuesday.
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Post by fish7373 on Oct 22, 2018 21:58:45 GMT
Why have we got D STOCK RAT on The pic page
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Post by littlejohn on Oct 23, 2018 18:16:32 GMT
'Notably, no RATs run into Uxbridge sidings this year (because direct entry from Hillingdon no longer exists!)' - More to Jack Oct 8, 2018 at 8:29pm. With apologies for both the delay in commenting (I've been away) and for my ignorance; what has happened? It is 15 years or more since I lived in Uxbridge but I remember sometimes being turfed off a Met train with UXBRIDGE written on the front at Hillingdon when it was going into the sidings. I have an idea entry to the sidings was possible from the Up line (from the Uxbridge direction) but involved a lot of shunting about.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2018 18:44:52 GMT
'Notably, no RATs run into Uxbridge sidings this year (because direct entry from Hillingdon no longer exists!)' - More to Jack Oct 8, 2018 at 8:29pm. With apologies for both the delay in commenting (I've been away) and for my ignorance; what has happened? It is 15 years or more since I lived in Uxbridge but I remember sometimes being turfed off a Met train with UXBRIDGE written on the front at Hillingdon when it was going into the sidings. I have an idea entry to the sidings was possible from the Up line (from the Uxbridge direction) but involved a lot of shunting about.
It was and is possible to shunt from the eastbound line into Uxbridge sidings via a mainline shunt move and MW55. This isn't exactly a lot of shunting, but it is less direct than the equally possible and much more preferable routes from the platforms straight into the sidings. Although you have to change ends inside the sidings on the reception road (25 road) anyway, but you will cause less disruption doing that.
It also used to be possible to go straight into the sidings from Hillingdon and the westbound line. The points have been lifted. The move is no longer possible.
I think this is due to route simplification for the computers and cost cutting. But also, with the longer S8 stock trains, there has been rejigging of Uxbridge sidings so things don't work there quite like they used to in A stock days.
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Post by spsmiler on Oct 23, 2018 20:13:31 GMT
I would suggest that from the point of view of passengers who hated being turfed off Uxbridge trains here, the change which makes it impossible for a train to enter the sidings from the westbound line at Hillingdon is a very welcome upgrade.
I wonder though if its as welcome operationally.
Ah well, lets all praise the computer - for whose convenience we shall adjust our lives!
But, more seriously, I would hope that the real reason is the longer length of the S stock trains which required the siding layout to be modified. This maintains the meme of 'progress'.
Simon
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Post by philthetube on Oct 24, 2018 6:59:51 GMT
The layout mods were only carried out recently, Long after the S stock were introduces.
Some sidings modifications were carried out to lengthen roads before S stock introduction.
The recent work was to simplify the layout, the main disadvantage of this is that if you get a failure at uxbridge it is not necessary to curtail services at ruislip, and less trains can be turned at Ruislip than cout be turned via the depot.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2018 9:12:33 GMT
It’s all about cutting maintenance costs down especially with points which rarely get used.
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Post by spsmiler on Oct 24, 2018 17:15:26 GMT
I feel sure that there was a time when Hillingdon was a destination in its own right (by which I mean that it was shown at the front of the train during its journey).
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Post by goldenarrow on Oct 24, 2018 17:21:33 GMT
I feel sure that there was a time when Hillingdon was a destination in its own right (by which I mean that it was shown at the front of the train during its journey). Certainly was, this being my local station in the millenia, there were regular occasions where trains finished and more commonly entered service at Hillingdon, both the A60/62 and 1973 stocks had Hillingdon on their roller blinds. Unsure if it was ever included in the S stocks tranche of destinations codes.
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Post by Dstock7080 on Oct 24, 2018 18:05:07 GMT
Unsure if it was ever included in the S stocks tranche of destinations codes. Codes are available for Hillingdon westbound; - all stations, - fast to Harrow - non-stopping Preston Rd and Northwick Pk. Ickenham is also available from Uxbridge (?!?)
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2018 18:25:29 GMT
Unsure if it was ever included in the S stocks tranche of destinations codes. Ickenham is also available from Uxbridge (?!?)
Possible to shunt from Ickenham eastbound platform to Ickenham westbound platform via a mainline shunt over 6 points. It's a colour light move cleared by MU9B signal. Also possible to shunt from the eastbound main into Ruislip siding (cleared by shunt signal MU9A).
I rather suspect these don't appear on the list of the top ten most commonly carried out moves on London Underground However, one could imagine an Uxbridge - Ickenham service during engineering works. Possibly. Also, during disruption, one could imagine a train that had departed Uxbridge being turned around at Ickenham or put into Ruislip siding.
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Post by philthetube on Oct 24, 2018 20:28:05 GMT
Unsure if it was ever included in the S stocks tranche of destinations codes. Codes are available for Hillingdon westbound; - all stations, - fast to Harrow - non-stopping Preston Rd and Northwick Pk. Ickenham is also available from Uxbridge (?!?) possible to run a service Uxbridge Ickenham, reversing via ruislip siding, can't imagine circumstances where that would happen though.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2018 20:35:53 GMT
Codes are available for Hillingdon westbound; - all stations, - fast to Harrow - non-stopping Preston Rd and Northwick Pk. Ickenham is also available from Uxbridge (?!?) possible to run a service Uxbridge Ickenham, reversing via ruislip siding, can't imagine circumstances where that would happen though.
No need to go into the siding. In fact, the only routes out of the siding are into the depot, or onto the eastbound. So if you did reverse at Ickenham eastbound via the siding you'd go eastbound main to Ruislip siding to eastbound main to westbound main. Obviously makes a lot more sense to go eastbound main to westbound main. But one could I suppose imagine a train terminating at Ickenham eastbound being recessed in Ruislip siding for a while to let other services go on through, especially if it was a dud. I wouldn't have thought it would be particularly worthwhile though?
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Post by d7666 on Nov 1, 2018 22:04:42 GMT
THanks for the replies, sorry I'd forgotten I'd asked the question only remembered today. Amid all the other gen, was it established if there are 73TS RAT cars this year or not..... the thread gave loads of useful data but don't think answered my question ) -- Nick
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Post by Tom on Nov 1, 2018 22:12:29 GMT
It’s all about cutting maintenance costs down especially with points which rarely get used. A little off topic I know, but... They were also unreliable, but then the same could be said about most double or single slip layouts! Uxbridge had some very non-standard and unconventional route locking arrangments because one of the reception roads was too short even for an A stock to berth between the shunt signal to the sidings (MW52, an old friend) and the outlet to Hillingdon (MW25, from memory). The other reception road was only useful for bringing trains in/out via Hillingdon because you couldn't get to the station from it, so it made sense to remove it, plus I'm not sure how well the Seltrac application data would work with trains stradling points and reversing. I'm not saying I ultimately agreed with the change though - my job was simply to test the alterations!
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Post by goldenarrow on Nov 1, 2018 22:14:27 GMT
THanks for the replies, sorry I'd forgotten I'd asked the question only remembered today. Amid all the other gen, was it established if there are 73TS RAT cars this year or not..... the thread gave loads of useful data but don't think answered my question ) -- Nick There are indeed 1973 stock RAT trains out for the duration of the lead fall season/timetable. Same set up a last year with one unit for each open end of the line respectively using the exact same numbered 3 car formations as before.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2018 22:31:04 GMT
Uxbridge had some very non-standard and unconventional route locking arrangments because one of the reception roads was too short even for an A stock to berth between the shunt signal to the sidings (MW52, an old friend) and the outlet to Hillingdon (MW25, from memory).
MW25 was the shunt signal into the shunt neck that a train going back into the sidings via MW52 would pass.
MW24 was the colour light outlet signal to Hillingdon. Is the colour light outlet signal to Hillingdon in fact.
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Post by Tom on Nov 1, 2018 22:39:39 GMT
Thanks tut, you tend not to remember the ones you abolished!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2018 22:46:57 GMT
I bet you try to forget Wood Lane though
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