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Post by superteacher on Oct 31, 2018 19:19:46 GMT
Quite a big proportion of the District, Circle and H&C are closed. Does anybody know what work is happening, and also the service pattern on the District?
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cso
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Post by cso on Oct 31, 2018 19:24:49 GMT
I wonder if, originally, it was designed for "The Future" testing which has been cancelled as per this post? |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2018 20:24:46 GMT
The testing continues regardless just not commissioning this weekend
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Post by goldenarrow on Oct 31, 2018 23:44:44 GMT
Service pattern on the District? 3tph/every 20 mins Olympia - High St Ken 3tph/every 20 mins Ealing - High St Ken 6tph/every 10 mins Richmond - South Ken 12tph/every 5 mins Wimbleware 7.5tph/every 8 mins East Ham - Upminster |
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Post by Dstock7080 on Nov 1, 2018 11:29:37 GMT
H&C trains Hammersmith-Baker Street will now run in passenger service, previously booked as empty for testing purposes.
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Post by goldenarrow on Nov 1, 2018 11:42:13 GMT
Dstock7080 , does that mean that mean that SMA 0.5&1 will operate under conventional signalling for passenger service?
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Post by Dstock7080 on Nov 1, 2018 12:08:09 GMT
Dstock7080 , does that mean that mean that SMA 0.5&1 will operate under conventional signalling for passenger service? Correct, conventional signalling CBTC testing cancelled SMA 0.5 and 1. |
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Post by superteacher on Nov 1, 2018 13:06:25 GMT
H&C trains Hammersmith-Baker Street will now run in passenger service, previously booked as empty for testing purposes. So after Baker Street, will these trains continue empty to the SMA3 area? If so, will they reverse at West Ham? |
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Colin
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My preserved fire engine!
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Post by Colin on Nov 1, 2018 15:42:14 GMT
So after Baker Street, will these trains continue empty to the SMA3 area? If so, will they reverse at West Ham? Whilst I'm not directly involved, so can't say with absolute authority, I would suggest its unlikely the two are linked. The SMA0.5 section was to be operationally proved using normal Train Operators/Instructor Operators running to a timetable. The SMA3 section is only being tested and thus uses Test Train Operators with train movements only conducted as required to test whatever needs testing. Given this is the first actual test using trains in the SMA3 area, I'd be very surprised if there was much actually going on in terms of train movements. |
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cso
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Post by cso on Nov 1, 2018 16:34:04 GMT
How do you test a signalling system using trains without trains actually moving, other than to check that the information from the signalling system reaches the train? |
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Post by Dstock7080 on Nov 1, 2018 16:50:05 GMT
So after Baker Street, will these trains continue empty to the SMA3 area? If so, will they reverse at West Ham? Under TTN173/18 the trains were booked to run an empty shuttle service from Hammersmith-Baker Street, as follows: The replacement TTN143/18 shows a 6 train passenger service from 04.37 Hammersmith until 00.58 Baker Street (Sat) and 06.21 Hammersmith until 00.40 Baker Street (SUN) |
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Colin
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My preserved fire engine!
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Post by Colin on Nov 1, 2018 17:52:42 GMT
How do you test a signalling system using trains without trains actually moving, other than to check that the information from the signalling system reaches the train? It's not a case of install the system and then simply throw a few trains at it. Each SMA (Signal Migration Area) needs to be tested first to ensure its working as intended before going over to passenger service. SMA0.5 is of course the base testing ground for the sytsem in general but it dosen't replace the need to test and check each new SMA area. Intial testing for each indididual SMA area will liklely only be with one train and only basic things will initially be tested. For example, they can't just assume a train will stop in the correct place at each station the first time they try it - each platform needs to be tested to make sure. Tweaks may be required before they try it again - this is why you'll likely see little movement here and there as the adjustments take time to implement. Once the basics are sorted they move on to testing with two trains. Primary interest will of course be ensuring safe seperation is being maintained between trains. They then move on to testing with multiple trains in a given area....and so it ramps up. All of this work can take place over several weekends depending on the size or complexity of the SMA concerned. |
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Post by 100andthirty on Nov 1, 2018 19:13:58 GMT
A great deal of testing can be done in service. Provided the signalling equipment isn't actually controlling the train, nor connected to the track (eg points), the behaviour of the trainborne and track side equipment and software, together with the communication links can be tested and monitored and confirmation made that it is doing what is expected, consistently as trains move around the railway. Together with testing on simulators, this can give a lot of confidence that all will be work when everything is connected.
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Post by londonstuff on Nov 1, 2018 19:17:36 GMT
A great deal of testing can be done in service. Provided the signalling equipment isn't actually controlling the train, nor connected to the track (eg points), the behaviour of the trainborne and track side equipment and software, together with the communication links can be tested and monitored and confirmation made that it is doing what is expected, consistently as trains move around the railway. Together with testing on simulators, this can give a lot of confidence that all will be work when everything is connected. Isn't what they did with the Vic line - they left it going seemingly forever, it's just the legacy equipment was in charge? Basically the new stuff is passive with legacy active? |
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Nov 1, 2018 19:39:49 GMT
Isn't what they did with the Vic line - they left it going seemingly forever, it's just the legacy equipment was in charge? Basically the new stuff is passive with legacy active? But that was ATO replacing ATO. We're talking here about ATO replacing manually driven legacy signalling - the two couldn't be any more different. |
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Tom
Administrator
Signalfel?
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Post by Tom on Nov 1, 2018 21:29:50 GMT
The plan for this weekend's testing is pretty much as Colin says, proving the guideway data, making sure trains stop accurately. A lot of the comms side is proved in advance in a passive mode, this is the first time things become active, so to speak.
As for the ease/difficulty of this compared to the Victoria line; ATO replacing ATO or ATO replacing manual actually doesn't make much odds. The tricky thing is that the Victoria line, whilst a 'system', was quite discreet in ATO and ATP. Seltrac is much more of a train control system.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2018 19:34:43 GMT
H&C trains Hammersmith-Baker Street will now run in passenger service, previously booked as empty for testing purposes. Strangely enough TfL website says they will only stop at Hammersmith and Baker Street - skipping all intermediate stations. |
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Post by goldenarrow on Nov 2, 2018 19:55:13 GMT
H&C trains Hammersmith-Baker Street will now run in passenger service, previously booked as empty for testing purposes. Strangely enough TfL website says they will only stop at Hammersmith and Baker Street - skipping all intermediate stations. Bit misleading with what they’ve typed, I guess there are other ways to say that for example, “use alternative routes for all other Circle/Hammersmith & City line stations”. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2018 20:46:32 GMT
Ah, I see :-)
Well, I blame this on not being a native speaker of TfL English.
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Post by John Tuthill on Nov 3, 2018 7:47:05 GMT
Ah, I see :-) Well, I blame this on not being a native speaker of TfL English. None of us members are!  |
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Tom
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Signalfel?
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Post by Tom on Nov 3, 2018 9:28:25 GMT
Ah, I see :-) Well, I blame this on not being a native speaker of TfL English. None of us members are! With time, you can learn the dialect, before being allowed to progress and take part in engagement sessions with fellow speakers for collaborative improvement, etc... |
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Post by John Tuthill on Nov 3, 2018 13:52:27 GMT
None of us members are! With time, you can learn the dialect, before being allowed to progress and take part in engagement sessions with fellow speakers for collaborative improvement, etc... No doubt these 'sessions' would be chaired by Sir Humphrey? |
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DWS
every second count's
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Post by DWS on Nov 3, 2018 15:04:38 GMT
So after Baker Street, will these trains continue empty to the SMA3 area? If so, will they reverse at West Ham? Whilst I'm not directly involved, so can't say with absolute authority, I would suggest its unlikely the two are linked. The SMA0.5 section was to be operationally proved using normal Train Operators/Instructor Operators running to a timetable. The SMA3 section is only being tested and thus uses Test Train Operators with train movements only conducted as required to test whatever needs testing. Given this is the first actual test using trains in the SMA3 area, I'd be very surprised if there was much actually going on in terms of train movements. 4 test trains , 2 X 8 cars from Neasden Depot , 2 X 7 cars from Barking sidings. |
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