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Post by tom73 on Feb 11, 2019 12:53:36 GMT
What is it about the Victoria Line track infrastructure that makes the ride so noisy? A noise you don't hear on any other line. If it helps my Victoria Line use is mostly Oxford Circus-Finsbury Park, although I occasionally go slumming down Victoria way if I have an overnight coach to catch
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class411
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Post by class411 on Feb 11, 2019 14:13:31 GMT
I'll back up what Tom has said. The ride is noisy, and it's a particularly unpleasant noise. It seems to occur at places all along the route.
I don't specifically remember if it was like this in the 70's and 80's, but it's certainly been this way for the past 20-30 years.
It's so bad that, going from Victoria to Pimlico last Saturday, several people were clamping their hands over their ears.
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Feb 11, 2019 20:26:56 GMT
It's related to the stiffness of the trackwork and how stiffness affects noise and vibration. A firm trackbed transmits vibration into the ground, these sections have less stiffness to reduce the transmission to the ground, however this is a trade-off and vibration then becomes airborne. It's a little out of date now (there's been another presentation on Noise and Vibration since) but there's some of the explanation here.
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Post by bigvern on Feb 12, 2019 15:43:03 GMT
In addition train bogie design also affects the noise, the 09 TS, and 95 TS on Victoria and Northern lines have similar split frame bogies and although designed to be flexible, actually have caused rail corrugation especially on curved track as bogies don't have a centre pivot, but the pivot is offset, so bogie tends to crab and slip in curves causing significant rail corrugation, but this bogie design is better for use on straighter track. As the older stocks didn't cause so many issues on these lines.
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Post by bassmike on Feb 12, 2019 18:09:33 GMT
The Victoria line--just another example of the stupidity in today's managements. For the sake of a few inches (probably barely noticable) they have lumbered L U with yet another complication of incompatability where the stock won't fit other lines properly. What with this and different control systems all over the place etc: this is what we have comt to expect these days. That's my negative post for this week.
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Post by ducatisti on Feb 13, 2019 10:28:34 GMT
would you prefer they are all on the lowest common denominator? The vic line is an incredibly successful passenger-moving device, and makes use of every inch that it can find (and as someone 6'2" that few inches makes a big difference when stuck at the edges). What would you gain by compatibility of passenger stock? Those trains will trundle up and down the vic until they wear out. The issue referred to is common to lots of stock.
Like a lot of successful things, you only notice when it goes wrong (he says having had to trundle on the picc and the northern this morning when the vic decided it wasn't going south of the river).
As for it being a "today's management" - at least we have the same gauge, power rail lay-out/height, minimum tunnel size
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Post by bassmike on Feb 13, 2019 18:04:07 GMT
Gauge,power-rail layout (apart from D L R ) and minimum tunnel size is nothing to do with"T0day's management"
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class411
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Post by class411 on Feb 13, 2019 18:41:44 GMT
Back on topic, I'm quite surprised that the safety elf hasn't put his oar in.
Presumably the racket is just as bad in the driver's cab, and continual, repeated, exposure to high noise levels is known to be detrimental to long term hearing.
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Post by superteacher on Feb 13, 2019 19:23:35 GMT
The Vic is an amazing line. So quick and so frequent. There are noisier stretches of track on other lines anyway.
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Post by t697 on Feb 13, 2019 21:21:38 GMT
The Victoria line--just another example of the stupidity in today's managements. For the sake of a few inches (probably barely noticable) they have lumbered L U with yet another complication of incompatability where the stock won't fit other lines properly. What with this and different control systems all over the place etc: this is what we have comt to expect these days. That's my negative post for this week. Hang on a minute. The repeat build of the 1967TS by way of two batches of 1972TS trains and their running as service fleets at various times on the Northern, Jubilee and Bakerloo lines confirms that the Victoria line gauge profile is not responsible for significant incompatibilities. And if you meant that it would have been better built to full size profiles then that's 1950's/1960's management decisions, hardly "today's". Fair point about different control (or signalling) systems across LUL though, an enduring chain of decisions up until quite recently and probably into the future.
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Feb 13, 2019 22:55:53 GMT
The Vic does have a slightly larger loading gauge than the other deep level lines. The 1967 stock were built to standard size - the increased diameter was intended to improve airflow iirc. The 2009 stock were built to fill the larger tunnels though.
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Post by t697 on Feb 13, 2019 23:14:19 GMT
Fair enough, but given the 67TS spent their entire career on Vic line service and 09TS is intended to do the same, making it smaller on the off chance of transfer to say the Central line would have reduced the internal space for passengers. As actually built, the shoulder space in the doorways of 09TS is particularly good for a tube train and not, I suggest, an example of management stupidity.
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class411
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Post by class411 on Feb 14, 2019 8:33:32 GMT
The Vic is an amazing line. So quick and so frequent. Yes indeed. The joys of point to point lines. The whole of the Paris Metro is like that. And the Prague Metro, where they actually have the seconds listed on the 'time to arrival' boards, and the train berths as the seconds reach zero. (I assume they are real seconds, and not like the special London Underground Minutes used on the LU indicators.)
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Post by 35b on Feb 14, 2019 10:19:17 GMT
Fair enough, but given the 67TS spent their entire career on Vic line service and 09TS is intended to do the same, making it smaller on the off chance of transfer to say the Central line would have reduced the internal space for passengers. As actually built, the shoulder space in the doorways of 09TS is particularly good for a tube train and not, I suggest, an example of management stupidity. Hear, hear. I’m 6’6” and the difference in my ability to stand in 1992 and 2009 stock is noticeable. That’s not just about my back or the people I appear to be leaning over, but also how much of the carriage is actually usable to me in the rush, and therefore how the crowd moves.
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Post by ducatisti on Feb 14, 2019 10:58:32 GMT
Gauge,power-rail layout (apart from D L R ) and minimum tunnel size is nothing to do with"T0day's management" my point exactly - the management of yesteryear gave us differing things for all these. Which precise slice of management meets your approval?
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Post by superteacher on Feb 14, 2019 12:47:25 GMT
Can we stop drifting into discussing management please. It’s detracting from an otherwise interesting discussion.
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Post by cudsn15 on Feb 14, 2019 21:33:42 GMT
Yes it is incredibly loud - I live in a house that sits above the northbound Seven sisters points - and we are aware of trains moving underneath us - it's not a problem - most of the time we don't notice it and if we do it's over in a few seconds - they literally fly over the points - particularly the Walthamstow trains. It's a comforting sound in some ways as you know it's running and you notice if it's not - like yesterday morning! Any disturbance of sound is more than compensated by being able to be on the platform or back in my home within 2 minutes. BUT actually on the train can be deafening - some trains - especially lightly loaded trains are the worst it seems. I know tfl pay lip service to addressing noise issues - but only because there isn't a concerted effort by passengers for action and of course they have no money. I remember the 67ts used to create great harmonics on certain sections of track (particularly between Victoria and Vauxhall as I seem to recall). The current stock just makes an awful racket. The worst noise I hear is crawling into Holborn Eastbound on the Piccadilly line. and the twisty turny bits of the Bakerloo between Piccadilly and Charing Cross. That is truly ear piercing
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