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Post by jimbo on Nov 15, 2019 19:25:53 GMT
Current Stonebridge Park depot was built as stage 1 on an odd shaped site, on understanding that adjacent land would become vacant for further roads. It was needed in a hurry to vacate Neasden for the Jubilee fleet. I expect it will maintain the coming larger fleet of new trains, with their reduced maintenance needs. What is needed is a reasonable stabling area to serve the south end of the line.
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metman
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Post by metman on Nov 16, 2019 7:35:59 GMT
Re the problem of stabling the additional stock,there used to be a carriage repair shop on the BR land next to Stonebridge Pk Depot.Is that land still available or has it been built on? I believe that is still operated by Alsthom (my wife’s uncle used to work there!).
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Post by jimbo on Dec 11, 2019 3:21:10 GMT
Don't forget, this public consultation is open until Sunday 22 December 2019 if you want to get your views considered!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2020 14:32:03 GMT
Following the recent opening of Lidi on the Former Toys "R" Us location, won't TfL need to revisit their plans?
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slugabed
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Post by slugabed on Feb 17, 2020 12:48:36 GMT
Following the recent opening of Lidi on the Former Toys "R" Us location, won't TfL need to revisit their plans? Modern "Tin shed" shops can be demolished in a day or two. The change of owner won't affect the plans.
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metman
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Post by metman on Feb 17, 2020 20:24:03 GMT
They can but the foundations (if they need to be removed) can take longer.
I’m sure there won’t be too many issues.
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Post by ijmad on Feb 18, 2020 12:20:28 GMT
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Post by bassmike on Feb 18, 2020 21:36:54 GMT
Far better to forget all this and revert to extending to Camberwell Green as origionally planned . C G is an obvious traffic center with not very good N R access within short walking distance. Then possibly extend to Dulwich area. I'm sure that Hayes residents would be delighted to swap their present trains for yet another overlong tube journey as with Epping etc: There is quite a bit of transport access in the Lewisham /Old Kent road area already with docklands and overground etc: Camberwell has a very large hospital (Kings college plus Maudslay etc:) with limited and horrific car parking which I know from personal expierience. Denmark Hill station is quite a walk from these venues and has limited useful services for the area. And as for Loughbobo' Junc the station is a joke with only one direction sevices and derelict platforms galore. There was a perfectly good station just off New rd: but it was closed years ago although even this is a medium walk from C G .At least this would have direct access to central London.
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Post by bassmike on Mar 4, 2020 22:39:25 GMT
Further to my post back in Feb:. I read today on Ianvisits site that Bromley council is opposing the bakerloo ext: on various grounds one of which is what I said about Hayes residents not wanting confined tube gauge trains. Also they think that the proposed tube service would take them to the west end area while a lot of them want to use the present destination's (which would involve a change of train etc: under the proposed plan.)
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Post by ijmad on Mar 7, 2020 11:01:49 GMT
Further to my post back in Feb:. I read today on Ianvisits site that Bromley council is opposing the bakerloo ext: on various grounds one of which is what I said about Hayes residents not wanting confined tube gauge trains. Also they think that the proposed tube service would take them to the west end area while a lot of them want to use the present destination's (which would involve a change of train etc: under the proposed plan.) I feel this may be a situation where the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. Yes, Bakerloo to Hayes would make a few journeys more awkward and a mote longer, though it does bring opportunity through more higher quality interchanges. It's right that Bromley represents their constituents. However looking at it from a TfL/NR position, those 4-5 peak time paths in to Charing Cross and Cannon Street to send elsewhere would be more valuable than gold dust by the late 2020s.
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Post by bassmike on Mar 7, 2020 14:24:32 GMT
Who are the "many"?
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Post by spsmiler on Mar 7, 2020 15:15:58 GMT
Far better to forget all this and revert to extending to Camberwell Green as origionally planned . C G is an obvious traffic center with not very good N R access within short walking distance. Then possibly extend to Dulwich area. I'm sure that Hayes residents would be delighted to swap their present trains for yet another overlong tube journey as with Epping etc: There is quite a bit of transport access in the Lewisham /Old Kent road area already with docklands and overground etc: Camberwell has a very large hospital (Kings college plus Maudslay etc:) with limited and horrific car parking which I know from personal expierience. Denmark Hill station is quite a walk from these venues and has limited useful services for the area. And as for Loughbobo' Junc the station is a joke with only one direction sevices and derelict platforms galore. There was a perfectly good station just off New rd: but it was closed years ago although even this is a medium walk from C G .At least this would have direct access to central London. I am pleased to hear from people with local knowledge of the areas involved. I only know the area from looking at a map and from sometimes using the Hayes service between Lewisham and Elmers End - where I change for Tramlink. To my eyes extending the Bakerloo beyond Elephant & Castle is a good idea, as this is too much near central London to attract sufficient traffic to balance with the north London section. However going all the way to Hayes (Kent) would repeat some of the perceived problems found on the tube train extensions over mainline railway branches done in the 1930s / 1940s. That said, I would be less concerned if the 1910's decisions were possible - this being using the tube trains to supplement existing services with track sharing (as per service to Watford Junction). However I know that new instances of such track sharing will not be allowed. Many years ago London Transport talked about a compromise size tube train which uses 14' 6" tunnels and has the same floor height as mainline trains. I suppose that enlarging the tunnels to allow such larger trains would not be seen as feasible / financially viable, even though it would enhance central London capacity and create a win-win accessibility situation north of Queens Park. Lewisham concerns me for the same reason that sending a tube line to Clapham Junction concerns some people: Possibility of the trains being swamped - especially if the fares are cheaper on the tube train than the mainline trains. But it is one of London's four major middle suburban regional hubs* and the Old Kent Road route does need serving better than is possible with buses - especially as 20 mph road traffic speed limits makes bus travel less attractive. I accept that the Walworth Road route to Camberwell also needs better transport services - which means a railway service - but unless sending the Bakerloo to both Lewisham & Camberwell became seen as being financially viable a choice would have to be made. For the Walworth Road reopening Borough Road, Walworth Road and Camberwell stations could possibly represent a more affordable option. Which trains call at them however is something that I cannot answer. As for Dulwich, yes its something of a transport backwater but is it densely enough populated to make a new service that far south financially viable? Perhaps it would only work as a 'stepping stone' (aka: intermediate location) on the way to somewhere else. *London's four major middle suburban regional hubs - south west: Clapham Junction, north west: Willesden Junction, north east: Stratford, south east: Lewisham
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Post by theblackferret on Mar 7, 2020 15:32:51 GMT
Far better to forget all this and revert to extending to Camberwell Green as origionally planned . C G is an obvious traffic center with not very good N R access within short walking distance. Then possibly extend to Dulwich area. I'm sure that Hayes residents would be delighted to swap their present trains for yet another overlong tube journey as with Epping etc: There is quite a bit of transport access in the Lewisham /Old Kent road area already with docklands and overground etc: Camberwell has a very large hospital (Kings college plus Maudslay etc:) with limited and horrific car parking which I know from personal expierience. Denmark Hill station is quite a walk from these venues and has limited useful services for the area. And as for Loughbobo' Junc the station is a joke with only one direction sevices and derelict platforms galore. There was a perfectly good station just off New rd: but it was closed years ago although even this is a medium walk from C G .At least this would have direct access to central London. I am pleased to hear from people with local knowledge of the areas involved. I only know the area from looking at a map and from sometimes using the Hayes service between Lewisham and Elmers End - where I change for Tramlink. To my eyes extending the Bakerloo beyond Elephant & Castle is a good idea, as this is too much near central London to attract sufficient traffic to balance with the north London section. However going all the way to Hayes (Kent) would repeat some of the perceived problems found on the tube train extensions over mainline railway branches done in the 1930s / 1940s. That said, I would be less concerned if the 1910's decisions were possible - this being using the tube trains to supplement existing services with track sharing (as per service to Watford Junction). However I know that new instances of such track sharing will not be allowed. Many years ago London Transport talked about a compromise size tube train which uses 14' 6" tunnels and has the same floor height as mainline trains. I suppose that enlarging the tunnels to allow such larger trains would not be seen as feasible / financially viable, even though it would enhance central London capacity and create a win-win accessibility situation north of Queens Park. Lewisham concerns me for the same reason that sending a tube line to Clapham Junction concerns some people: Possibility of the trains being swamped - especially if the fares are cheaper on the tube train than the mainline trains. But it is one of London's four major middle suburban regional hubs* and the Old Kent Road route does need serving better than is possible with buses - especially as 20 mph road traffic speed limits makes bus travel less attractive. I accept that the Walworth Road route to Camberwell also needs better transport services - which means a railway service - but unless sending the Bakerloo to both Lewisham & Camberwell became seen as being financially viable a choice would have to be made. For the Walworth Road reopening Borough Road, Walkwath Road and Camberwell stations could possibly represent a more affordable option. Which trains call at them however is something that I cannot answer. *London's four major middle suburban regional hubs - south west: Clapham Junction, north west: Willesden Junction, north east: Stratford, south east: Lewisham What reminds me of earlier Tube extensions is that Old Kent Road has little immediate traffic potential to justify it going that way. It really would make sense to go to Camberwell Green, with all the traffic now you could ask for, and thence to Peckham Rye, then worry about speculative extensions into metropolitan Kent when and if they justify it. Frankly, you wonder why Old Kent Road station (closed permanently a mere nine months after Camberwell New Road) has had just one concerted campaign for reopening since WWII, compared to Camberwell's three. That should tell you all you need to know about who is likelier to get on the Tube, but if you want further proof, there are better bus services through Camberwell than along OKR, because most of the latter area's commuters drive to work & have done for donkey's years.
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Mar 7, 2020 17:19:34 GMT
Hopefully this will not be yet another occasion when Bromley manages to put itself on a London wide transport pedestal.
The desire to put the Bloo to Lewisham over points south was decided on regeneration and densification grounds years ago. Taking over one of the few remaining NR London Suburban branch lines would seem to provide strategic sense for not just London but the whole of the SE for the capacity it frees into London Terminals.
Can't help thinking that if TfL and local stakeholders were more publicly enthusiastic about a reopened Camberwell station on NR, that it would sufficiently help that location out enough to decrease objection of the Bloo towards Lewisham.
Sainsburys plans are obnoxious - clearly an attempt to milk money one way or another from TfL, and ultimately the traveling public and tax payers. Shameless.
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Post by crusty54 on Mar 8, 2020 0:20:12 GMT
Of course, Bromley itself will not be a problem as it will still have services to Blackfriars (and beyond) and Victoria.
Currently only the Cannon Street trains on the Hayes line run via Lewisham. I used to have to travel from Blackheath to Lower Sydenham and the connection at Lewisham was frequently missed.
Having driven through Lower Sydenham recently I was amazed to see the number of tower blocks going up. Clearly these and those in Lewisham require some more frequent services.
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Post by ijmad on Mar 10, 2020 23:27:59 GMT
The residents of Kent, East Sussex and other parts of Bromley
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Post by crusty54 on Mar 11, 2020 11:51:34 GMT
Hopefully this will not be yet another occasion when Bromley manages to put itself on a London wide transport pedestal. The desire to put the Bloo to Lewisham over points south was decided on regeneration and densification grounds years ago. Taking over one of the few remaining NR London Suburban branch lines would seem to provide strategic sense for not just London but the whole of the SE for the capacity it frees into London Terminals. Can't help thinking that if TfL and local stakeholders were more publicly enthusiastic about a reopened Camberwell station on NR, that it would sufficiently help that location out enough to decrease objection of the Bloo towards Lewisham. Sainsburys plans are obnoxious - clearly an attempt to milk money one way or another from TfL, and ultimately the traveling public and tax payers. Shameless. The Sainsbury development has been cancelled by their partners.
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Post by bassmike on Mar 11, 2020 19:05:50 GMT
The residents of Kent, East Sussex and other parts of Bromley Cant envisage many residents of East sussex going to Hayes to catch a train to london for a start!!
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Mar 11, 2020 19:28:54 GMT
They are very unlikely to do that, but they would catch trains from East Sussex that use paths currently occupied by services to Hayes.
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Post by ijmad on Mar 12, 2020 23:07:14 GMT
They are very unlikely to do that, but they would catch trains from East Sussex that use paths currently occupied by services to Hayes. Yeah, exactly my point.
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Post by bassmike on Mar 13, 2020 20:45:51 GMT
if you say so.
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Post by phil on Mar 16, 2020 21:02:54 GMT
The residents of Kent, East Sussex and other parts of Bromley Cant envisage many residents of East sussex going to Hayes to catch a train to london for a start!! I took ijmad's comments to be a reference that many residents of Bromley still earnestly try and pretend they are part of the posh rural-ish Kent County Council and not a London borough under the authority of the Urban Grater London Authority.
There is also a slight party political angle too - Bromley is / has always solidly been Conservative territory while the GLC / GLA has been led by Labour in the past.
A similar fiction is also perpetuated in parts of Kingston, Sutton and Croydon where some folk are most vehement that they reside in Surrey (rather than a London Borough), while residents of Bexley, like those in Bromley prefer to still think of themselves as living in Kent.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Mar 16, 2020 21:48:02 GMT
The residents of Kent, East Sussex and other parts of Bromley The residents of the boroughs of Bexley and Greenwich would also benefit from the extra paths between Lewisham and Charing Cross - indeed relatively few stations in Bromley or East Sussex are on the South Eastern lines into Charing Cross (as distinct from the "Chatham" lines into Victoria/Blackfriars)
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Post by crusty54 on Mar 16, 2020 23:12:20 GMT
The residents of Kent, East Sussex and other parts of Bromley The residents of the boroughs of Bexley and Greenwich would also benefit from the extra paths between Lewisham and Charing Cross - indeed relatively few stations in Bromley or East Sussex are on the South Eastern lines into Charing Cross (as distinct from the "Chatham" lines into Victoria/Blackfriars) The DfT want to remove the Woolwich Arsenal/Lewisham/Charing Cross trains if a new franchise ever happens. Not all Greenwich people are happy.
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Post by Chris M on Mar 17, 2020 0:31:13 GMT
As a former resident of Woolwich I can say there would be uproar if direct trains between Woolwich and Lewisham were to cease and only a little bit less if the direct services Charing Cross were removed - certainly if not replaced with a same-platform interchange. Crossrail, when it finally arrives, will take some of the Abbey Wood and Woolwich to West End traffic, but none of traffic for Lewisham or Waterloo.
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Post by crusty54 on Mar 17, 2020 14:56:16 GMT
As a former resident of Woolwich I can say there would be uproar if direct trains between Woolwich and Lewisham were to cease and only a little bit less if the direct services Charing Cross were removed - certainly if not replaced with a same-platform interchange. Crossrail, when it finally arrives, will take some of the Abbey Wood and Woolwich to West End traffic, but none of traffic for Lewisham or Waterloo. It was in the spec for the abandoned franchise competition along with diversion of the Bexleyheath line/Victoria trains via Sidcup. Crazy given the number of people who use these trains for Denmark Hill. The alleged benefit was the reduction in contra movements at Lewisham. Obviously the DfT fat controllers have never tried to use the subways at the station.
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towerman
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Post by towerman on Mar 20, 2020 16:36:31 GMT
Cant envisage many residents of East sussex going to Hayes to catch a train to london for a start!! I took ijmad's comments to be a reference that many residents of Bromley still earnestly try and pretend they are part of the posh rural-ish Kent County Council and not a London borough under the authority of the Urban Grater London Authority. There is also a slight party political angle too - Bromley is / has always solidly been Conservative territory while the GLC / GLA has been led by Labour in the past. A similar fiction is also perpetuated in parts of Kingston, Sutton and Croydon where some folk are most vehement that they reside in Surrey (rather than a London Borough), while residents of Bexley, like those in Bromley prefer to still think of themselves as living in Kent.
Chingford & Wanstead prefer Essex to E4 & E18.
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Post by countryman on Mar 20, 2020 16:45:56 GMT
I took ijmad's comments to be a reference that many residents of Bromley still earnestly try and pretend they are part of the posh rural-ish Kent County Council and not a London borough under the authority of the Urban Grater London Authority. There is also a slight party political angle too - Bromley is / has always solidly been Conservative territory while the GLC / GLA has been led by Labour in the past. A similar fiction is also perpetuated in parts of Kingston, Sutton and Croydon where some folk are most vehement that they reside in Surrey (rather than a London Borough), while residents of Bexley, like those in Bromley prefer to still think of themselves as living in Kent.
Chingford & Wanstead prefer Essex to E4 & E18. How much of this is due to use of historic addresses. I used to live in the borough of Ealing, my postcode was UX (Uxbridge) rather than a W code, and the address was Greenford, Middlesex. I left many years ago, so I wonder what the current address of my old house is.
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Mar 20, 2020 20:40:42 GMT
How much of this is due to use of historic addresses. I used to live in the borough of Ealing, my postcode was UX (Uxbridge) rather than a W code, and the address was Greenford, Middlesex. I left many years ago, so I wonder what the current address of my old house is. The Uxbridge area postcode sequence is 'UB'; Greenford is UB6.
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Post by countryman on Mar 21, 2020 8:43:03 GMT
How much of this is due to use of historic addresses. I used to live in the borough of Ealing, my postcode was UX (Uxbridge) rather than a W code, and the address was Greenford, Middlesex. I left many years ago, so I wonder what the current address of my old house is. The Uxbridge area postcode sequence is 'UB'; Greenford is UB6. Sorry, m poor memory. Of course it it is UB, UX is the code for Uxbridge bus garage!
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