Bendybus goes on fire...again.

[Chris M]

I hadn't thought about ground clearance - that's a good point for rural areas, but do you need the super-capacity buses on rural routes? I'd have thought that it would only be needed on routes that encounter nothing more severe than speed bumps?

I haven't seen pictures of those sorts of buses so I can't comment. Please can you point me in the direction of some so that I may be educated in this regard.

My point, although not well made, regarding the seating was not so much the number of seats but their layout being such as to maximise standing capacity.

In the streets around where he lives there are only a handful of properties with off-street parking, so with the dire public transport provision in Bristol (and expense of what there is) most households require at least one car. I do suspect that the modern buses are being compared with ones that are at least 40 years old if not more; I'm not familiar whether these are thinner or not, and whether or not they were built to the maximum permitted width. Certainly the width of private cars has generally increased over the years.
One of his points is that the bus routes should be altered so that where possible they run in different directions on parallel streets. Although with the pinch points that I am familiar with on the services between Wells/Winscombe and Weston-super-Mare (Banwell (Castle Hill/East Street/West Street), Cheddar (Church Street/Draycott Road and Axbridge Road) and Westbury-sub-Mendip (Wells Road)) - there are no alternatives.

[aspect]

All the bendies (and the non-articulated Mercedes benz Citaro's) were apparantly fitted with "fire supression equipment" ... it doesn't look to have been very effective !

A recent batch of East Lanc's bodied Scania's failed the "tilt test" after the addition of various items for TfL spec. To pass they had to loose a couple of seats upstairs and carry a large concrete block downstairs !

Modern buses are certainly wider and longer than their predecesors, and if switching from a Routemaster to a Trident, one must remember the front wheels are behind the driver rather than infront, requrirng a different line on bends !

Bendies are cattle trucks, they may have had a niche for use on the Red Arrows or school services, but I prefer to sit in comfort. If a bendie and a double decker turn up together I get on the double decker !

I've been on hopelessly overloaded route 25 bendies and the driver simply can't get the doors closed (they spring back open on contact with someone or thing ).

If a modern day, accessible Routemaster successor can be developed for London then so much the better ...Artic's are not it !

[pacific]

Thought Olympians/Dominators/Metrobusses were *slightly* narrower than the new Tridents. I'm asking because Hong Kong took a couple of years to update the width regulations to the EU standard. When it was done, the Tridents etc. that came in new were wide enough to accomodate 2-2 wide seats on the lower deck without compromising aisle width.

Aspect, the 25 really is one very unique route in London! Even when its full, I'm pretty sure it hasn't exceeded the Licenced capacity by people count! I really cannot imagine more than 60 people standing in that thing.

[rob]

The routemaster was beset with many problems when it was introduced! 2,000 modifications were fitted after introduction!

The RMs trump card was its weight saving. They were going to fit a single aperture blind to save weight but decided against it because of the passengers opinions. An 8 ton RM seating 72 compared to a 12 ton low floor bus seating a similar amount but using so much more fuel per passenger. The RM was the best engineered bus ever built and probably the best bus ever built. Built for its purpose and carrying on from the Frank Pick's legendary leadership of LT.

[pacific]

The Routemaster is a great design but it is lighter because it's shorter and narrower than modern busses. A RM has width to support 2-2 "narrow" seating.

Modern wide busses initially came with "narrow" 3-2 seating but with people getting fed better these days, the standard has become "wide" 2-2 seating. The increased width also increased standing capacity. If you fit "wide" seats into a routemaster it would be a 2-1 config, resulting in approx 15 less seats. Therefore, modern busses aren't not as weight inefficient as they may seem.

A low floor bus results in the loss of approx 10 seats versus an Olympian. The low floor is responsible for the loss of 6 seats as people cannot sit sideways above the wheels anymore. Another 4 seats is lost because of the modern "straight" staircase instead of the old spiral resulting in one less row of seats.

vbn said:

Con-duc-tor... What is that... ;D

I agree with Chris, but I can't ever see it happening, as it would mean having to pay more wages, for something a driver is already paid to do...

First's "FTR" schemes in York and Leeds feature "Customer Service Hosts" who sell tickets and so on, allowing the "Pilot" (driver!) to drive without being bothered by passengers. It's a conductor by another name...!

Obviously the FTR idea is a little different from standard routes anyway and there are various reasons why they need conductors on those buses, so I'm not suggesting that it would necessarily work in London on buses with conventional bodywork.

[aspect]

pacific said:

Aspect, the 25 really is one very unique route in London! Even when its full, I'm pretty sure it hasn't exceeded the Licenced capacity by people count! I really cannot imagine more than 60 people standing in that thing.

I rather like the route. I have driven it in MCW Metrobus's, Dennis Arrows, Dennis Trident/Alexander, Dennis Trident/Plaxton President (Long and short) and Routemasters. Though, I am pleased to say, never a Mercedes Benz Citaro! You'd be amazed at the antic's of (the very different) passengers on this route !

[pacific]

But not a Titan? ;D In all seriousness, that's a rather impressive list you have! It indeed is a very interesting (and intimidating) route, as it leaves the UK and enters Bangladesh!

All I've seen on the 25's lots of pushing and shoving as it's almost always packed to the brim (but not "overloaded"). I guess since its a bendybus, the scum need not interact with the driver. I can understand your point about the antics though - the 205 which carries the same passengers (to Mile End) is a standard bus and I've seen some rather heated exchanges with the driver, and an attempted faredodge!

However, I have heard the 25 has one of the highest incidence of drivers hitting the emergency button for police help.

(The DMS is a very accecible successor to the Routemaster and all other modern busses have followed suit! ;D Give me a DMS over a bendy any day...)