Post your successes here!

[undergroundgal]

Jul 28, 2008 19:45:34 GMT smudger said:

Sorry UG, but its not quite as 'exciting' as that.
Its a 5 day stretch confined to the training room with non-stop signalling info for every single section of the line being force fed into your head.
Its quite intensive, so makes sure you get some good quality shut-eye each night!

They're bringing hiking into it at the moment, or definitely trying to - was discussing it with the I/O.

[adw]

Jul 28, 2008 19:45:34 GMT smudger said:

Sorry UG, but its not quite as 'exciting' as that.
Its a 5 day stretch confined to the training room with non-stop signalling info for every single section of the line being force fed into your head.
Its quite intensive, so makes sure you get some good quality shut-eye each night!

That sounds awful. :o We don't do it like that on the District!

[smudger]

Jul 28, 2008 23:20:33 GMT undergroundgal said:

They're bringing hiking into it at the moment, or definitely trying to - was discussing it with the I/O.

Up until last week it was still in the format I described, so don't hold yer breath (this is the Picc we're talking about here!)
It would be a welcome change though if hiking were indeed included in LRKT.
In it's present form its ok for drivers with a good few months experience of the line, but for trainee's I think its just far too much unnecessary (and I mean unnecessary at the stage a trainee is at due to all the other information they're taking on board whilst training) and too detailed information.
Obviously my opinion of this specifically relates to the Picc only.

As ADW says above, its obviously completely different on the District.
ADW, what's the content of the District LRKT then?

[undergroundgal]

Things have possibly been thrown out by RH moving to Acton. :-p To be honest, even if it is only classroom work I'm still looking forward to it (heck, in this weather I don't particularly wish to be traipsing around half the line as long as the air con in that training room is working correctly now...). I've done a fair bit of work during the job/road training on the controlled areas and moves, already have cabin codes sorted and a few signal IDs as well, and it'd be nice to sit down and look at it on paper and try and fix some more of the details.

[adw]

On the District, the usual way (although it's really up to the individual I/O) is to have three days at the start of road training to visit the control room, all the depots and sidings, some of the signal cabins and anywhere else felt to be important. The majority of moves on the line will be discussed in those three days, so it's pretty intensive, but it's done primarily by actually going down and looking at the signals and sidings concerned.

Then in the final week of road training we have "refresher" hiking for 2 days, where we revisit most of the locations visited in the first week to make sure the trainee is happy with all the moves (many of which will have been done for real by that point).

The idea of trying it to do it in a classroom sounds horrific to me.

[Oracle]

Sounds a lot to take in! When I did pointwork as a volunteer on a preserved railway, I found it difficult to remember and take in which way points were to go when shunting! I can imagine that there's a lot to work out in your mind about stabling...Parsons Green for example must be a nightmare to memorise word-perfect!

Also how do you learn to distinguish depot signals, at night, when they could relate to another road?

I am full of admiration for the successful candidates.

[Colin]

Indeed Oracle - that's precisely why we earn the money we do..........pity the general public will never appreciate the fact.

I wonder how the list would look if you did it by subject......bit like yer GCSE's or whatever....

• Rules
  
• Procedures
  
• Signalling (theory)
  
• Track & traction current
  
• Roles & responsibilities
  
• Stock (all circuits and how to fix/bypass) - x2 stocks on District
  
• Driving (theory)
  
• Driving (Practical)
  
• Line knowledge (all cabin codes, traction current sections, signalled moves, non signalled moves, signal locations, gradients, speed limits, order of stations, locations of trip cock testers, locations of spring & toggle points, handworked points, the line supplement book, etc, etc)

It's quite something when you write it down isn't it?!!

In terms of time:

• 4 weeks central training school (for rules, procedures, signalling (theory), track & traction current and roles & responsibilities
  
• 4-5 weeks on stock (+ extra 2 weeks on District for second stock)
  
• 4 weeks Job training (the basics of driving a train - starting & stopping it, getting used to characteristics, etc)
  
• 2 weeks annual leave - to prevent the trainee becoming too overloaded
  
• 5 weeks road training - learning the line in detail (includes more detailed practical driving)

That's about 19 weeks - quite often it'll end up stretching to 20 weeks as the operational railway can sometimes upset the best laid plans...........looks worse when you say 5 months doesn't it! ;D ;D

[tubeprune]

Training Comparison with 1960s:

Guard:
1 week basic in classroom
1 week on station
1 week rules & regs in class
4 days train equipment in class
2 days road training as guard, 4 with driver out on a line (not necessarily the one you'd end up on
Oral exam 1-2 days
If passed, posted to line: 2 days stock training per stock plus up to 6 days road learning.

Some years on the trains later:-
Promotion to motorman:
1 week R&R in class
1 week train equipment in class
1-2 days oral exam. If passed - 2 days stock training per stock & road training up to 6 days per line (It was two weeks at Baker St for Circle, H&C and extension).

Total training to get on the front: 9 weeks approx. = cheap! Two years experience on the trains as a guard = Priceless!

[Oracle]

Wow! Having driven trains of various types, I can attest that it's easy enough to drive: stopping is harder and stopping on the mark blinking difficult! I can imagine that for someone, unlike myself, who is not interested and not therefore likely to take in possible movements it must be very daunting to cram in everything then try and recall it.

Praise where praise is due.

[undergroundgal]

Jul 29, 2008 12:07:40 GMT Colin said:

• 4 weeks central training school (for rules, procedures, signalling (theory), track & traction current and roles & responsibilities
  
• 4-5 weeks on stock (+ extra 2 weeks on District for second stock)
  
• 4 weeks Job training (the basics of driving a train - starting & stopping it, getting used to characteristics, etc)
  
• 2 weeks annual leave - to prevent the trainee becoming too overloaded
  
• 5 weeks road training - learning the line in detail (includes more detailed practical driving)

That's about 19 weeks - quite often it'll end up stretching to 20 weeks as the operational railway can sometimes upset the best laid plans...........looks worse when you say 5 months doesn't it! ;D ;D

Only three weeks at Ashfield House now, actually! Except Direct Recruits, as mentioned elsewhere, but they cram into a week everything that an internal should have already picked up in two or more weeks of CSA training, and all their time actually working.

Stock training is as little as two weeks for some lines (Northern comes to mind). Piccadilly is currently three weeks. I'd heard that the District was only four now, but obviously I haven't got any knowledge to back that up.

For the Picc we have five weeks of 'proper' Road Training, and one of the LRKT.

It should also be noted that in the four weeks job training, the trainee is supposed to drive for 70 hours. If they haven't managed it for whatever reason, they have to keep going on job training until they do.

Ditto on Road Training. Certain moves must be completed a certain number of times and, if your six weeks end and your log book isn't complete, you keep training until it is. Target training - identifying a train that is making the move you need to complete and nicking it off the driver assigned to it - tends to happen at some point towards the end of road training..! You won't get put up for your road test until all the moves are ticked off, and your I/O's believe you're ready on all the theory as well - that's theory from the whole of the course.

I recently added a page to my site about some of the things I have to do to qualify after someone asked, it can be found here.

[smudger]

Jul 29, 2008 9:46:44 GMT adw said:

On the District, the usual way (although it's really up to the individual I/O) is to have three days at the start of road training to visit the control room, all the depots and sidings, some of the signal cabins and anywhere else felt to be important. The majority of moves on the line will be discussed in those three days, so it's pretty intensive, but it's done primarily by actually going down and looking at the signals and sidings concerned.

Then in the final week of road training we have "refresher" hiking for 2 days, where we revisit most of the locations visited in the first week to make sure the trainee is happy with all the moves (many of which will have been done for real by that point).

The idea of trying it to do it in a classroom sounds horrific to me.

ADW, we're a little at x-purposes here. Your training description above all sounds pretty similar to what happens on the Picc (except the 2 days revisiting bit towards the end). What UG was talking about when she referred to LRKT is a separate course and is in addition to the hiking, job training, road training, etc.

I take it that on the District you don't have the LRKT, which is a 5 day classroom based course (done at some point during road training) going into the finer detail of signalling on the line and line mapping, focussing on every semi-auto on the line and the various train movements in the vicinity of those signals which could prevent its clearance. Its basically 5 straight days of that kind of info that makes it intensive.

[Colin]

No, we don't have 'LRKT' on the District.

I personally like the 2 day 're-visit' - the way it was done with me (I presume all District I/O's do it ) is that when re-visiting an area, the trainee describes everything to the I/O........it's a sort of role reversal where the trainee road trains the I/O thus proving they know what they're talking about.

As an aside, it was quite funny when my I/O tried to road train me Earls Court, banging on about what an important area it was - he gave up when when he realised it used to be my station and I already knew every possible move, etc ;D ;D ;D ;D

[adw]

Jul 29, 2008 22:13:32 GMT Colin said:

No, we don't have 'LRKT' on the District.

Thankfully.

[smudger]

Jul 29, 2008 22:13:32 GMT Colin said:

No, we don't have 'LRKT' on the District

Jul 30, 2008 9:07:27 GMT adw said:

Thankfully.

Amen to that.

Jul 29, 2008 22:13:32 GMT Colin said:

I personally like the 2 day 're-visit'

This sounds very beneficial. I think there should be a more standardised method of teaching new T/Op's, instead of the line-by-line variation.

[undergroundgal]

Jul 29, 2008 22:13:32 GMT Colin said:

As an aside, it was quite funny when my I/O tried to road train me Earls Court, banging on about what an important area it was - he gave up when when he realised it used to be my station and I already knew every possible move, etc

Working on the Arnos group was also useful for that sort of thing...! Especially coupled with a general knowledge of the line anyway (disused stations, the Aldwych branch, the connection to the Northern Line...). I may have disliked the Arnos group at times but it certainly put me at a good advantage.