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Post by davidp on Jan 25, 2020 15:01:11 GMT
I don't think these FoI requests have been mentioned on this forum before - tfl.gov.uk/corporate/transparency/freedom-of-information/foi-request-detail?referenceId=FOI-0462-1920tfl.gov.uk/corporate/transparency/freedom-of-information/foi-request-detail?referenceId=FOI-0753-1920These are the plans for increased capacity on the various lines. I'm looking at the Lewisham figures and the suggestion is that replacing the 3-car train every 4 minutes service between Lewisham and Bank and the 2-car train every 8 minutes service between Lewisham and Stratford with the new 5-car train every 4 minutes between Lewisham and Bank and the new 5-car train every *4* minutes between Lewisham and Stratford would increase capacity by 65%. As I understand it, the new 5-car trains offer 10% additional capacity to a current 3-car train so my maths makes that a 55% increase - still impressive but someone (probably me!) has their sums wrong somewhere. The other question that occurs to me is whether a train every 2 minutes in and out of Lewisham station is achievable given how long a train would block the scissors crossover as it slowly approaches the buffers there.
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Post by davidp on Aug 17, 2019 14:22:37 GMT
I hope the displays on the new machines are brighter. In some stations (e.g. Rayners Lane), the ticket machines are very difficult to read because they exposed to sunlight. Rayners Lane? But getting back to the DLR, it's not just sunshine, the ticket machines and the tap in/out units are all exposed to all the elements and a bit of shelter would be welcome. I'd also like to separate out the tap out and tap in units - I know of too many people (and yes including me) who've missed just one tap in or out and then end up with a bizarre journey history
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Post by davidp on Dec 22, 2018 13:32:14 GMT
I'm sure you are right spsmiler, it does improve the travelling experience. I think that it's now expected to provide (at least 'up') escalators where there is a reasonably long climb. I'm just surprised that this hasn't been done (yet) at Westferry which is advertised as an interchange for trains to or from Lewisham with trains to or from Beckton or Woolwich Arsenal but that interchange involves a long set of steps down followed by a long set of steps up. When I've had to do that, I've always been tempted to stay on until Shadwell where I can do a cross-platform change.
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Post by davidp on Mar 19, 2018 9:42:05 GMT
What this has proved to me is the usefulness of having the current format of having 2 or 3 detachable '2-car' units forming a complete train. Problem with the wheels on one unit? Detach it from the other units and run a smaller train. OK, only 66% of the normal capacity but that has to be better than 0% of normal capacity that we'd get with the proposed new '6-car' units if there was any problem with any one 'car'.
I know the argument for the '6-car' unit is that it allows passengers to move through the train to find a less congested spot, but my experience of 6-car trains here in Amsterdam suggests that it is not going to happen. On my evening journey from work at Bijlmer towards town, the first 3 or 4 sets of doors are so crowded whilst there are seats still available at the last 3 or 4 sets of doors. That's because the last three stops (Waterlooplein, Neumarket and Centraal) all have their main exits at the front of the train and people want to be close to those exits when they get off. My experience of the DLR suggests the same will apply here (front of train if you're going into the City at Bank) and that there will be no benefit.
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Post by davidp on Aug 31, 2015 15:54:57 GMT
From observation, it appears that although the frequency of the Stratford to Lewisham trains in the morning peak has increased from 5 tph to 7.5 tph, they are now only two-car trains rather than the three-car prior to the timetable changes. Or put it another way, the service has gone from 15 cars per hour to 15 cars per hour. Erm ...
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Post by davidp on Aug 13, 2015 8:11:57 GMT
Don't know all the details but I've just looked at Journey Planner from my local station, Bow Church. Monday-Friday peak increased from 10 trains per hour to 15 tph (every 4 mins) Monday-Friday midday off-peak increased from 10 tph to 12 tph (every 5 mins) Monday- Friday evening increased from 6 tph to 8 tph (every 7-8 mins) I've never known a 4-minute frequency on the Stratford route - be interesting to see how reliable it is with the single track stretches. Also on the Stratford route through Bow-Church, Saturday / Sunday is currently 6 tph (every 10 mins). Service frequency will be increased at busy times below, unchanged early morning / evening. Saturday increased to 12 tph 09:00-21:00 Sunday increased to 12 tph 10:00-19:00 Looks as though the Beckton-West Ham service is discontinued, to be replaced by a Beckton-Canning Town service at certain times to supplement the Beckton-Tower Gateway service. So the losers are Star Lane and Abbey Road, and still only a 10 minute frequency to Stratford International. And from the Journey Planner for my local Station, Mudchute, it appears that that the 5 minute frequency on the Bank to Lewisham service on Saturdays will now operate until 10pm (currently 7pm). EDIT: Checking the Bow Church Journey Planner for the morning peak service, it looks as though it's still every other train from Stratford that will continue from Canary Wharf to Lewisham, i.e. every 8 mins instead of every 12 mins, so increasing the morning peak service between Lewisham and Canary Wharf from 20 tph to 22.5 tph. David
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Post by davidp on Jul 1, 2015 13:37:17 GMT
Got a bit of a surprise last night (26th June) when travelling home on Unit 111 to see that the seats between the doors are now all longitudinal inward-facing and only the seats at each end of the unit remain forward-facing. The seating capacity remains the same (i.e. there are 8 inward-facing seats on each side instead of 2 inwards followed by a bay of 4 seats followed by 2 more inwards). I would have expected the change to give the impression of more space in the middle of car to encourage more people to move further inside but the (re)positioning of the handrails seem to make it look as if there's less space that previously. Does anyone know if this is the start of a programme or is this just a one-off test? David Would this change have been undertaken to increase standing passengers capacity, and (logically) total capacity of the unit? Except if the "seated" passengers lie in their seats with their feet in the middle of the coach... Yes, I was presuming that must be the idea and you're right about some seated passengers. I was wondering whether at some point when even more was built on the Isle of Dogs and the Royal Docks that the DLR have to say, look, sorry but we desperately need to increase the capacity of each unit and the only way to do that is to take out [most of] the seats and replace them with inward facing perch type seats and much more standing room.
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Post by davidp on Jun 28, 2015 13:43:03 GMT
Seen a post elsewhere that states that 114 has the same conversion. Big shame as everyone including me goes for these seats first. Entirely irrelevant to the purpose of the DLR, but as an occasional user of the system I've often thought what a marvellous way it is for the interested visitor to London to enjoy a grandstand view of Canary Wharf,as well as a bird's eye view of areas of East London, fascinating in their own right. The conversion to more longitudinal seating will be a loss. At least it's not all longitudinal seating, the 8 "tourist" seats at the ends of each car are still forward facing.
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Post by davidp on Jun 27, 2015 13:11:22 GMT
Got a bit of a surprise last night (26th June) when travelling home on Unit 111 to see that the seats between the doors are now all longitudinal inward-facing and only the seats at each end of the unit remain forward-facing. The seating capacity remains the same (i.e. there are 8 inward-facing seats on each side instead of 2 inwards followed by a bay of 4 seats followed by 2 more inwards).
I would have expected the change to give the impression of more space in the middle of car to encourage more people to move further inside but the (re)positioning of the handrails seem to make it look as if there's less space that previously.
Does anyone know if this is the start of a programme or is this just a one-off test?
David
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Post by davidp on May 13, 2015 19:49:48 GMT
Yet again transverse seating to be lost. The views from the DLR are spectacular and these seats fill up first. More doors likely to mean more standing. Traverse seating will certainly be lost from most of the train but presumably it must be possible for these new trains to be driven from the Lead Driving Position and therefore the first set of seats would still have to be traverse. And perhaps that would imply that the second row of traverse seats would survive as well? Regards All David
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Post by davidp on Jan 20, 2015 11:35:26 GMT
Why not more through Stratford - Lewisham trains, rather than the present Canary Wharf reversers? There are times when I would like to see that happen but I think some of the reasons why no off-peak services run between Stratford and Lewisham could be: 1. the frequencies of the two routes differ so dovetailing them may prove a challenge; 2. the present off-peak Canary Wharf to Lewisham provision is more than adequate so there's no necessity for more trains 3. it's very noticeable that on trains from Lewisham coming into Canary Wharf, significantly more people stay on the train towards Bank than change to go to Stratford so reducing the number of Bank to Lewisham services (presumably to be replaced by Stratford to Lewisham and Bank to Canary Wharf services) would potentially cause more inconvenience than the present situation.
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Post by davidp on Jan 14, 2015 10:32:13 GMT
Apparently TfL are considering including a DLR extension to Thamesmead using the proposed Galleons Reach Bridge. Some more details here
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Post by davidp on Nov 19, 2014 10:18:41 GMT
I take my hat off to you-the first person to consider Stratford too exotic. Seeing you've been living in Docklands for a few years, did you eventually come to terms with Stratfords' iniquities? Exotic is not exactly a word I'd describe Stratford as My dictionary defines exotic as "characteristic of a distant foreign country". No further comment please! Apart from to say that now I've got to know the area, I actually quite like Stratford. ... Some people would actually sit in the back seats so that they would be un the front seats after the train reversed at the terminus! .... Oh, so I wasn't the only one who did that. I'm far too old to do that these days of course, oh no.
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Post by davidp on Nov 18, 2014 10:21:56 GMT
I lived in the North East when the DLR first opened, but used to come down to London regularly so managed have a few trips on the original stock with their inward-open doors and their toblerone style blocks hanging from the front windows showing one of the only three destinations, Tower Gateway, Island Gardens or Stratford. For someone unused to London, Stratford sounded too exotic for my tastes so these journeys were confined to the Tower Gateway to Island Gardens section including the original Mudchute station up on stilts from where I could view the wasteland around Millwall Dock that, 12 years later, would become my home.
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Post by davidp on Oct 30, 2014 13:55:45 GMT
Those are the machine codes for the jucntions rather than human names, but it's the best yet! Any idea what the "ISP" stands for/derives from? I assumed that they referred to various In Spection Points where the member of staff on-board the train may need to check the state of the line ahead before proceeding. Most are referenced in the Working Timetables (have a look at my WTT thread). For the junction names, that list is actually incomplete so I'll have an educated guess at naming some/all of them but you may need the Carto map handy! JC2M - Canning Town Junction 2 (Merging points to Canning Town Platform 2 from Royal Victoria Platform 2 or West Silvertown Platform 2) JC3M - Canning Town Junction 3 (Merging points to Canning Town Platform 3 from West Silvertown Platform 2 and potentially from West Silvertown Platform 1 or Royal Victoria Platform 1) JC4M - Canning Town Junction 4 (Merging points to Royal Victoria Platform 1 from Canning Town Platforms 3 or 4) JCAW - Canary Wharf Junction (Merging points to Canary Wharf Platform 1/2 from Westferry Platform 1 or West India Quay Platform 2) JCRO - Crossharbour Junction (Merging points to Crossharbour Platform 2 from Mudchute Platforms 1,2 or 3 or Crossharbour Siding) JCTM - Canning Town Junction (Merging points to Canning Town Platform 2 from Royal Victoria Platform 2 or West Silvertown Platform 2) JCTX - Canning Town Junction (Crossover points to Canning Town Platform 2 from Royal Victoria Platform 2 AND leading from Canning Town Platform 1 towards West Silvertown Platform 1) JNQM - North Quay Junction (Merging points to West India Quay Platform 2 from Poplar Platform 3 or Westferry Platform 1) JNQX - North Quay Junction (Crossover points to West India Quay Platform 2 from Westferry Platform 1 AND from West India Quay Platform 3 to Poplar Platform 2) JRMS - Royal Mint Junction (Merging points to Shadwell Platform 1 from Bank Platform 9 or Tower Gateway Platform 1/2) JRMX - Royal Mint Junction (Crossover points to Tower Gateway Platform 1/2 from Shadwell Platform 2 AND to Shadwell Platform 2 from Bank Platform 9) JROM - Royal Victoria Junction (Merging points to Royal Victoria Platform 1 from Canning Town Platforms 1 and 3 and potentially from Canning Town Platforms 2 and 4 as well) JWEM - Westferry Junction (Merging points to Westferry Platform 2 from Poplar Platform 4 or West India Quay Platforms 3 and 4) JWEX - Westferry Junction (Crossover points to West India Quay Platform 2 from Westferry Platform 1 AND to Westferry Platform 2 from Poplar Platform 4) JWIQ - West India Quay Junction (Merging points to West India Quay Platform 3 from Canary Wharf Platforms 3/4 and 5/6) JWSM - West Silvertown Junction (Merging points to West Silvertown Platform 1 from Canning Town Platforms 1 and 3 and potentially from Canning Town Platform 2) JWSX - West Silvertown Junction (Crossover points to West Silvertown Platform 1 from Canning Town Platform 3 AND to Canning Town Platform 2 from West Silvertown Platform 2)
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Post by davidp on Oct 30, 2014 9:23:34 GMT
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Post by davidp on Sept 26, 2014 18:11:13 GMT
I posted Working Timetables for the DLR earlier this year (the Stratford International to Beckton or Woolwich Arsenal one is here and that suggests that the first direct train is at 6:07 preceded by Beckton bound trains at 5:27, 5:37, 5:47 and 5:57 and those are the times that the TfL Journey Planner is giving me. Perhaps, fippyff, there was an issue on that day?
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Post by davidp on Sept 14, 2014 13:29:43 GMT
The original thread is locked so apologies for starting a new thread...
<<rincew1nd: Old thread now unlocked and posts from new thread merged into it to create one harmonious environment>>
...I've just noticed that some of the older stock are now being repainted with black fronts. I think 02 and 10 were the two units that I spotted this morning.
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Post by davidp on Sept 1, 2014 7:51:54 GMT
Graham, Yes I agree about how little DLR related stuff is in that document. It's also interesting that the long proposed extension to Dagenham Docks is not mentioned at all.
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Post by davidp on Aug 31, 2014 13:32:57 GMT
The recently published London Infrastructure Plans towards 2050 (see here for the overall plans and here for a PDF for the specific transport possibilities) contains several proposals for the DLR. 1. By 2022 - 30 additional railcars for expansion of services on routes serving the Royal Docks (longer trains and more frequent service from Woolwich or Beckton to Stratford International) 2. By 2026 - All services operated by 3-car trains. If the first option is taken up then only the Stratford and Canary Wharf would need to be enhanced. 3. By 2031 - Further increased frequencies on routes to Stratford from Lewisham, Woolwich and Beckton. 4. By 2024 - Replacement of B92 stock by "fixed-formation" trains (I'm presuming this means a train consisting of 1 unit of 6 articulated sections rather than 3 units of 2 articulated sections) 5. Ongoing station capacity improvements of the stations around Canary Wharf 6. Sometime in the 2020s. New station at Thames Wharf (between Canning Town and West Silvertown) to serve new residential developments 7. Ongoing off-peak service level enhancements to similar levels as the current peak level 8. By 2050 - Close Tower Gateway station to be replaced by a new underground station on the Bank line near the Tower. Apparently this could increase capacity on the Bank line from 23 to 30 trains per hour but I thought the constraint was the turnback beyond Bank, however ... HIOI David
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Post by davidp on Aug 16, 2014 13:19:25 GMT
It may be technically possible to operate other stock on the DLR but The OP asked about *feasibility* of running other stock So apart from gauging issues and any access or passenger egress issues with running through tunnels, there's the obvious issue that the DLR has no physical connections to other railways so there's the logistics issue of getting stock to and from the DLR that would affect that feasibility.
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Post by davidp on Aug 9, 2014 12:29:23 GMT
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Post by davidp on Jul 6, 2014 13:34:07 GMT
I doubt it will have much of an impact. The trains are owned by TfL, so you won't see any changes there, although there may be some cosmetic changes (possibly also with the staff). It may also bring a slightly different timetable but for the most part, the average commuter won't notice a thing. Is there much leeway for timetable changes? I thought service levels, frequencies and operational hours were all dictated by TfL.
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Post by davidp on Jun 18, 2014 10:00:48 GMT
Just quickly, in the Stratford to Canary Wharf timetable, where has Langdon Park disappeared to? Oops! Try Again
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Post by davidp on Jun 10, 2014 12:30:00 GMT
I only use DLR one week a year, but it's still useful for me. What I'd really like to see is the timetables uploaded in their original format (instead of PDF) - this is no matter if it's Excel or Publisher or something else. This could make help me when I'm going to make A) a socalled branch timetable for the Beckton branch showing trains running between Canning Town and Beckton including those for Tower Gateway, those for Stratford International and the exit and enter ones. B) a socalled to go departure board for Beckton trains at Canning Town showing you the exact departure time for all platforms and a mark showing which platform the trains is departing from helping you when you're getting of the Jubilee Line. The original XLS files as 'greatkingrat' has referenced are useful but not exactly user-friendly - it's probably worth you having a look through them though to see if you can extract the information that you want. In the mean time please feel free to look through an All Beckton version that I've done that contains times for both the Beckton to Tower Gateway and Beckton to Stratford International services. The caveat is that at 9.1mb and 127 pages, it may be a bit unwieldy and I think at least one journey is in the wrong position (and I can't work out why!). It's also a bit of a work-in-progress but sorry, I can't let development on this get in the way of my real job so I can't devote that much time to it at the moment. Cheers David P
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Post by davidp on May 29, 2014 9:03:55 GMT
Having looked quickly at Stratford to Beckton, you have mixed up the order of stations so unless the train teleports, the correct order should be Royal Victoria, Custom House, Prince Regent, Royal Albert, Beckton Park, Cyprus, Gallions Reach and finally Beckton. Corrected (hopefully!). New version of Stratford International to Beckton or Woolwich Arsenal
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Post by davidp on May 28, 2014 11:57:49 GMT
That looks very good, certainly more detailed than usual WTTs. Normal WTTs usually have key timing points, with the intermediate stops left out, but running times provided at the start of each WTT. I like yours, as it gives you a lot of information, but if you remove some of the intermediate stops, leaving in junctions and reversing points, then you may even be able to fit all of the lines into one. Trying to think of other bits and bobs, you could add in grids so that times can be more easily referenced, but that's just me, others may find it better without. (NB this is based on a quick flick through of the Bank-Lewisham timetable, so others will probably come along with other points (or ridicule mine) its also worth noting I'm not much of a DLR aficionado) Thank you for this. The reason it doesn't have gridlines is the way the original printing software worked, just printing one big blob of data, and in my first attempts, I did try to include grids but just couldn't get the lines to line-up in the correct position. I will have another go at this with grid lines but unfortunately it won't be for a little while yet. I also take you point about omitting some intermediate stations, but in this version at least I just wanted to print everything that I had. But again, thanks for the comment and and I'll see if I would be able to do a summary all lines timetable in addition to these ones.
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Post by davidp on May 28, 2014 10:55:15 GMT
Using data provided by TfL under various Freedom of Information requests I have put together Working Timetable documents for the DLR. My first attempt was to produce one document containing all DLR lines but there were various complications with that approach which have led me to produce separate document for each line - I include Stratford International to Beckton and Stratford International to Woolwich Arsenal as one line since they use the same rolling-stock. PDF versions of the documents are available from the links below, please feel free to download them. The colours in the documents could be thought of as garish but as I didn't want them to look like official TfL documents, I just (mis-)used some bus timetable printing software that I'd written earlier and kept those colours. Because I've separated them into each line, there will be stations and sections of track for which you will need to look into multiple documents to get a full picture of what goes there and when I have another work break (which may not be for a while) I will look at alternative ways of presenting the data to provide a full picture. I've also include as much information as I have about timings for entering and exiting junctions and I've tried to include precise locations for each junction but you may need to look at a track-plan like the one on this map to get a clearer picture. There are also some locations or timing-points for which I have no details and I would be grateful if anyone could fill in the blanks for me. I've included Platform numbers but at the various multi-platform termini, all trains appear to serve just one of those platforms when observations suggest trains can use either platform. The links to the documents are: Bank to Lewisham, Bank to Woolwich Arsenal, Stratford and Canary Wharf or Lewisham, Stratford International to Beckton or Woolwich Arsenal and Tower Gateway to BecktonIf anyone has positive feedback or suggestions that I'd really like to hear it and when I get time I'll see if I can incorporate any suggestions into another set of documents. Cheers David P
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Post by davidp on Sept 9, 2013 15:36:34 GMT
From the TfL/DLR website A new station is under construction at Canary Wharf, located underneath the dock south of Poplar DLR station. Once the development is complete on the adjoining North Quay site a direct link will be provided between the Crossrail Canary Wharf station and Poplar DLR station. Indeed that is true and just to give a bit more information there, it would be a concourse to concourse link rather than a platform to platform link so it would need to be an authorised OSI. I have read somewhere (and I'm really sorry that I can't find the link for this though I presume it was on either the TfL or Crossrail websites) that Canary Wharf Crossrail to and from Canary Wharf Jubilee line will be an OSI as will Canary Wharf Crossrail to and from West India Quay DLR but I don't think that Poplar DLR was mentioned. I would seem logical though and Chris M does know what he's talking about. Rgds David
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DLR WTT
Mar 7, 2013 10:17:24 GMT
via mobile
Post by davidp on Mar 7, 2013 10:17:24 GMT
(Very) many starts from Beckton Depot in the WTT. All off them pass (and don't stop) all stations between Gallions Reach and West India Quay. But it's set to stop 45 sec on NQM-junction and 40 sec on CAW-junction! And "DAISY" view the trains. - Does the train stops between G. Rch and WIQ? (if yes, why is that not shown in WTT) (if no, why is DAISY show that)
- Does the train stops 40-45 sec on JNQM and JCAW? (if no, why is it shown)
Sorry for bad english, greetings Thomas Thomas, no worries, your English is far better than my Danish! Yes I spotted the relatively long time spent at some junctions but I *think* that in some cases the 'entrance' and 'exit' points of the junction are a fair distance before and after the actual junction itself. When I get some more free time I'm going to create a full WTT which will illustrate what you are talking about.
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