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Post by littlecog on Aug 25, 2009 16:48:50 GMT
So what's actually going to happen? Will the two sides start bickering through the press - or will they follow the CEC and Bilfinger and take it to court? Or will they actually agree a way to get the work done on time with the minimum disruption? I think TfL wants Tube Lines to fail and then use that as an argument (a pretty good one actually) for complete nationalisation of LUL. That one's been running so long it's got crows' feet! Believe nothing till it happens. |
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Post by andypurk on Aug 25, 2009 19:46:48 GMT
I think TfL wants Tube Lines to fail and then use that as an argument (a pretty good one actually) for complete nationalisation of LUL. That one's been running so long it's got crows' feet! Believe nothing till it happens. Indeed, it's been going on since TfL failed to get the originally planned moving block signalling installed and working when the extension opened. I think that the people complaining about the extra closures should remember that ten years ago TfL could do no better than Tubelines are managing today. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2009 19:50:05 GMT
Indeed, it's been going on since TfL failed to get the originally planned moving block signalling installed and working when the extension opened. Considering tfl didn't exist until 2000 did they really have anything to do with it? |
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towerman
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Post by towerman on Aug 25, 2009 22:47:17 GMT
We have to deal with the contractors who are working for Tubelines(Thales) and a bigger bunch of cowboys I've yet to meet.
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Post by andypurk on Aug 25, 2009 23:21:32 GMT
Indeed, it's been going on since TfL failed to get the originally planned moving block signalling installed and working when the extension opened. Considering tfl didn't exist until 2000 did they really have anything to do with it? Ok, London Regional Transport then  However, TfL is basically the same organisation as LRT, at least as far as London Underground are concerned; just with a different name and different 'boss'. Of course TfL didn't 'take over' LU until 2003, with the introduction of PPP. |
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Post by railtechnician on Aug 25, 2009 23:55:50 GMT
We have to deal with the contractors who are working for Tubelines(Thales) and a bigger bunch of cowboys I've yet to meet. Yes I have to say that my encounters with Thales on comms work a few years back left me in no doubt that they were indeed cowboys. We were having to go out and trace cables and pass the info over so that Thales could locate the cable faults. I was not allowed to make the repairs myself as Thales were being paid to do it even though I located the faults while gathering the info! I never believed in the PPP but those of us who got transferred were never given a choice. |
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Aug 26, 2009 16:35:18 GMT
If tubelines does fail and its remit taken back in company, will that effectively end the PPP structure? It'd be political suicide to try and keep flogging a dead horse; especially for the Mayor.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2009 17:41:15 GMT
will that effectively end the PPP structure? It'd be political suicide to try and keep flogging a dead horse; especially for the Mayor. PPP is a Labour government idea and as Boris and more than likely the next government will be Conservative I doubt anyone is too concerned either way about PPP. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2009 21:11:24 GMT
PPP is a Labour government idea and as Boris and more than likely the next government will be Conservative I doubt anyone is too concerned either way about PPP. It should be noted that the Tories proposed full privatisation of the London Underground in 1997. |
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Aug 26, 2009 21:28:01 GMT
Was that the proposal that would have seen the SSL lines merged with Railtrack?
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Post by Tomcakes on Aug 26, 2009 21:49:42 GMT
No doubt if they do want to disband PPP, there will be loads of contractors, sub contractors and staff who want huge payoffs for going back to the way things were!!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2009 22:07:45 GMT
i remember watching the tube documentary shot before the ppp and someone was saying that private money was needed and everything, were things really that bad back in 2002? I thought lul still had an investment program back then
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Post by johnb on Aug 27, 2009 12:05:31 GMT
I think TfL wants Tube Lines to fail and then use that as an argument (a pretty good one actually) for complete nationalisation of LUL. Disagree: both on whether that's what TfL wants, and on whether it'd be a good idea. On the former, the Metronet collapse cost TfL an absolute fortune. While in an ideal world TfL management might prefer not to work with Tube Lines, I don't think anyone involved at a high level has any desire to see another nightmare like the Metronet administration. On the latter, Tube Lines has massively outperformed both Metronet, and anything LU did when under government control. It's run by Bechtel, who're good at managing projects. The Jubilee upgrade is late, but not particularly late by the standard of upgrades on live railways in the UK - and TfL is getting compensation for the delays. It's also good having a benchmark for the in-house teams on SSL and BCV to compare against. |
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Post by johnb on Aug 27, 2009 12:07:04 GMT
i remember watching the tube documentary shot before the ppp and someone was saying that private money was needed and everything, were things really that bad back in 2002? I thought lul still had an investment program back then Yes they were. Check the PPP reports at: www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/modesoftransport/londonunderground/management/1582.aspx for details of how much performance has improved since the PPP investment programme began. |
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towerman
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Post by towerman on Sept 3, 2009 17:52:25 GMT
The Stratford-Waterloo shuttle on Sunday is now cancelled,the entire line is closed for test train working.
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towerman
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Post by towerman on Sept 11, 2009 21:57:32 GMT
Looks like the Stratford-Waterloo shuttles on 19th/20th September are cancelled,on Saturday 19th the whole line is closed,on Sunday 20th closed Stratford-Green Park.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2009 16:56:21 GMT
30,000 (approx) crowd at Lords - lets close the Jubilee
25,000 (approx) crowd at Wembley, lets shut down the Met - or run a 10 min service.
Remind me how this is WORLD CLASS ?
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towerman
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Post by towerman on Sept 12, 2009 17:57:55 GMT
Also today SpursvMan Utd Victoria Line closed.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2009 19:24:02 GMT
Weekends used to be fairly enjoyable to work. Now, a complete nightmare. I've lost count on the number of times I've been abused today over the engineering works. Trouble is I agree with the sentiments, although not the fact that somehow it's my fault...... So looking forward to my 12 hour shift tomorrow.  |
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towerman
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Post by towerman on Sept 16, 2009 17:52:49 GMT
Good news,Tubelines request for line closure this weekend was refused,so Saturday STR-WAT till 15:30 then whole line open.Sunday STR-WAT all day.
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towerman
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Post by towerman on Sept 23, 2009 22:04:51 GMT
They've done it again,Tubelines have managed to get additional closures for the next 2 weekends.This weekend is a right mish mash and we're still not 100% about what's happening but as I understand it whole line closed Saturday,WAT-STR shuttle as booked Sunday from SOT till 15:00 then STR-NOG closed with WAT-NOG shuttle.The closure ends 21:00 Sunday but I'm not sure if the trains are going to be extended back to STR.The following weekend the whole line is closed both days.Hopefully will hear something more concrete tomorrow.
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Post by 21146 on Sept 24, 2009 17:20:30 GMT
Tube Lines have at last announced today that they will *not* meet the ATO/ATP commissioning deadline of December 2009.
This completion date was the reason all these extra weekend closures were allowed, despite clashing with other work already planned on adjacent lines. And now all for what?
So with massive penalties looming, maybe the last Infraco will also finally go belly-up in 2010?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2009 17:43:14 GMT
Tube Lines have at last announced today that they will *not* meet the ATO/ATP commissioning deadline of December 2009. This completion date was the reason all these extra weekend closures were allowed, despite clashing with other work already planned on adjacent lines. And now all for what? So with massive penalties looming, maybe the last Infraco will also finally go belly-up in 2010? Was the source of info: www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009/sep/23/london-underground-upgrade-delayedto which you refer? If so, you'll have noticed that the same source suggests a Circa £10m pcm penalty. I don't think we're going to be seeing Tube Lines going down the pan. Aside from which, can TFL really afford to absorb the costs of reintegrating Tube Lines work and debt within their own remit as they did with Metronet. It doesn't seem that likely. So should as you have suggested actually come to fruition, we could see the first Central Government bale out of a regional Transport Authority and the further demise of this country's public finances which won't help any transport upgrades or initiatives. |
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towerman
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Post by towerman on Sept 24, 2009 18:46:00 GMT
Latest info on this weekends closure,NOG-WAT shuttle all day Saturday,closed STR-NOG & WAT-STM.Sunday it's as you were STR-WAT shuttle all day.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2009 14:43:38 GMT
Latest info on this weekends closure,NOG-WAT shuttle all day Saturday,closed STR-NOG & WAT-STM.Sunday it's as you were STR-WAT shuttle all day. During operation of the North Greenwich to Waterloo shuttles, where will the train(s) be stabled? |
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towerman
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Post by towerman on Sept 25, 2009 18:16:40 GMT
They will be "locked in" at various locations between NOG & WAT.
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DWS
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Post by DWS on Sept 25, 2009 18:20:17 GMT
They will be "locked in" at various locations between NOG & WAT. Just like a pub lock-in ;D |
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towerman
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Post by towerman on Sept 25, 2009 18:44:02 GMT
Well Tubelines/Thales are enough to drive you to drink!!!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2009 9:43:10 GMT
 Is this a record weekend for closures.?Welcome to one of the worlds great cities.Hello everybody.Wanna' travel around to see the sights,visit friends, see a football match,go to the cinema etc etc? Well tough.The only lines,I can see, working without any sort of closure/works are the Central,Northern and Piccadilly. What should be a weekend of pleasure,or maybe getting to work, becomes a nightmare of ducking and diving ,and working your way through the labyrinth of alternatives including the dreaded bus replacement services. We are now reaping the ''rewards'' for years of underfunding and wrangling, procrastination and political dogma.
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Post by Chris M on Sept 27, 2009 11:17:42 GMT
And what is the better that because we're playing catchup and repairing/replacing everything at the same time, what is being installed now will all become life-expired at the same time so we'll have all the fun again then?
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