Colin
Advisor
My preserved fire engine!
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Post by Colin on Jun 28, 2009 10:48:24 GMT
It has actually railtechnician!! From reply #7 on page 1 of this very thread: 4) Traction current discharged over a section to which points are set, but not the route the train will be taking (e.g. East Finchley Platform 2 early in the morning, when current is switched on for the northbound, but not yet for the southbound, the RGI will be extinguished only when the signal route is set and the points thrown). |
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North End
Beneath Newington Causeway
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Post by North End on Jun 28, 2009 10:51:27 GMT
As linecontroller66 has already said, not all traction current section gaps have RGI's. Where there are RGI's, they are only at the start of traction current section. Whilst I may have got hold of the wrong end of the stick, I think lc66 is referring to is when you get a gap between two "traction current sections" and there is no RGI. I had a cursory look through the Northern Line TCDs and cound find no example of this at all - even at High Barnet platforms 2 and 3 there are RGIs for the move into the sidings (a different traction current section). However, looking elsewhere, there are no RGIs marked anywhere in the Edgware Road, Hammersmith, Rickmansworth, Harrow or Ruislip Siding areas, to quote a few random examples. I have my suspicions this is an "age of installation" thing - at one time they were not provided in controlled areas, but with the advent of remote-controlled signalling, they have been provided. Presumably also in areas controlled by cabins it is the responsibility of the Signal Operator not to signal trains onto dead sections. Any thoughts on this? One interesting anomoly is the substation gap at Shepherd's Bush Substation - this doesn't appear to have RGIs in either direction. Anyone know a reason for this? |
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Tom
Administrator
Signalfel?
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Post by Tom on Jun 28, 2009 12:05:47 GMT
However, looking elsewhere, there are no RGIs marked anywhere in the Edgware Road, Hammersmith, Rickmansworth, Harrow or Ruislip Siding areas, to quote a few random examples. I have my suspicions this is an "age of installation" thing - at one time they were not provided in controlled areas, but with the advent of remote-controlled signalling, they have been provided. Presumably also in areas controlled by cabins it is the responsibility of the Signal Operator not to signal trains onto dead sections. Any thoughts on this? That was the theory at the time - there are traction current indications in the signal cabin and it is the Signal Operator's responsibility not to clear signals onto a dead section. No - though I'm surprised it wasn't in the spec for the Auto section resignalling in that area a few years ago. |
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Post by railtechnician on Jul 2, 2009 0:14:44 GMT
It has actually railtechnician!! From reply #7 on page 1 of this very thread: 4) Traction current discharged over a section to which points are set, but not the route the train will be taking (e.g. East Finchley Platform 2 early in the morning, when current is switched on for the northbound, but not yet for the southbound, the RGI will be extinguished only when the signal route is set and the points thrown). Quite right Colin! Hands up, I never saw that, that'll teach me to speed read a thread! |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2009 8:54:52 GMT
As linecontroller66 has already said, not all traction current section gaps have RGI's. Where there are RGI's, they are only at the start of traction current section. There are no RGIs in the Whitechapel area. There are also no RGIs on the whole of the Victoria line, apart from exiting Northumberland Park Depot - the reason being, every traction current section on the Vic line is a sectionalisation section with a minimum 48' gap which means it's not possible for a train to bridge the gap. There are definitely locations (quite a few I should think) where trains CAN bridge the gap. There was an incident fairly recently that I recall on the Northern where traction current couldn't be discharged Burnt Oak to Edgware because a train was bridging the gap, Hendon-Burnt Oak had to be taken off as well and then section switches were opened to enable recharge from the Hendon end only for trains to run as far as Colindale and reverse. |
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Tom
Administrator
Signalfel?
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Post by Tom on Jul 8, 2009 19:47:33 GMT
As linecontroller66 has already said, not all traction current section gaps have RGI's. Where there are RGI's, they are only at the start of traction current section. There are no RGIs in the Whitechapel area. There are also no RGIs on the whole of the Victoria line, apart from exiting Northumberland Park Depot - the reason being, every traction current section on the Vic line is a sectionalisation section with a minimum 48' gap which means it's not possible for a train to bridge the gap. That might be the way the gaps are laid out, but not why there are no RGIs. As Cobourg Street housed the Controller and Signal Operator within one room, with access to both the signalling controls and the traction current indications, it was viewed as being no different to a manned signal cabin and thus RGIs would not be required, the onus being on the Signal Operator to not clear signals into a dead section. |
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mrfs42
71E25683904T 172E6538094T
Big Hair Day
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Post by mrfs42 on Jul 8, 2009 21:23:14 GMT
So the RGIs at Northumberland Park are due to the Control Tower - more particularly the change of control from the tower to Cobourg Street?
I'm sure in the ancient, huge great big thick Victoria Line handbook (1972ish) there is a paragraph somewhere that states basically what you've written, Tom.
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North End
Beneath Newington Causeway
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Post by North End on Jul 8, 2009 21:47:36 GMT
There are no RGIs in the Whitechapel area. There are also no RGIs on the whole of the Victoria line, apart from exiting Northumberland Park Depot - the reason being, every traction current section on the Vic line is a sectionalisation section with a minimum 48' gap which means it's not possible for a train to bridge the gap. That might be the way the gaps are laid out, but not why there are no RGIs. As Cobourg Street housed the Controller and Signal Operator within one room, with access to both the signalling controls and the traction current indications, it was viewed as being no different to a manned signal cabin and thus RGIs would not be required, the onus being on the Signal Operator to not clear signals into a dead section. Evidence please... FWIW I'm not entirely convinced on this -- the Central Line was controlled by cabins, yet there were still RGIs at gaps in automatic areas - e.g. Bow, Leyton. There are gaps on the Victoria Line in the middle of automatic sections, e.g. Forest Road between Blackhorse Road and Walthamstow, Cobourg Street between Euston and Warren Street, Dover Street between Oxford Circus and Green Park, et cetera. These didn't get RGIs either. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2009 11:05:42 GMT
So the RGIs at Northumberland Park are due to the Control Tower - more particularly the change of control from the tower to Cobourg Street? I'm sure in the ancient, huge great big thick Victoria Line handbook (1972ish) there is a paragraph somewhere that states basically what you've written, Tom. The RGIs coming out of NPD, AFAIK, were installed some years back to prevent a train being allowed out of depot inadvertantly whilst engineering work is still ongoing. Shouldn't happen of course, but better safe than sorry, at least with a RGI in front of them the driver knows that the juice is off. |
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4) Traction current discharged over a section to which points are set, but not the route the train will be taking (e.g. East Finchley Platform 2 early in the morning, when current is switched on for the northbound, but not yet for the southbound, the RGI will be extinguished only when the signal route is set and the points thrown).
