NEW SSL ROLLING STOCK

[q8]

Gentlemen. As you know the new SSL rolling stock is in the planning stage so I think it would be fair for us all put our views in a new thread (This one) as to what you would like the new stock to incorporate. Please keep it concise and to the point and categorise items if possible.

The Highborn people who DO read this site will maybe then design a stock that incorporates the needs and desires of the Owners, the Operators and the users of the new trains.

[Chris W]

OK... thick person now adding a reply....

What SSL rolling stock....?

[setttt]

I only ask that they have high-backed seats, as these are, IMO, vital for the comfort of passengers on the met line services.

[setttt]

cjw said:

What SSL rolling stock....?

Sub-Surface Line

Circle, District, H&C, Metropolitan, East London

[q8]

I will start the thing off by giving my ideas.

1. The new stock should be formed of 6 or 7 cars
2. Formations should be 6 cars = DM-T-T+T-T-DM 7 cars = DM-T-T-UNDM-T-T-DM

3. DM's have cab at one end with high power monomotor bogies drivng each axle through hyphoid gears. They should be of a horse power enough to propel the whole 3 cars of a unit.

4. One of the trailers has an M.A to provide all the auxiliary electrical needs of a unit.

5. The other trailer has the compressor with enough to see to the air requirments of a 3 car unit with 20% extra capacity for a 7 car train.

6. The UNDM has auto couplers both ends and again monomotor bogies to provide the extra push needed for a 7 car train.

7.Car lengths should be no more that 50ft over couplers to ensure that all doors are in the platform no mattter what the station.

8. The UNDM should be of a length sufficient to increase train length overall but not to the extent that doors need to be cut out at stations. This may be a length of less than 50 ft

9. All cars should have plug type sliding doors as with Paris metro MF77 stock.

10. Overall body dimensions should be as with the old "F" stock with similarly provided large roof mounted ventilators fan assisted. There should be NO opening windows but exterior vent grills at the bottom of the body to force outside air into the car when in motion via interior grills at the top of the longitudinal seats.

11. All the auxilairy needs of the stock should be of the low-voltage type to lessen the load on the MA's. The flourescent tubes should be replace by fluoresecnt bulbs of the tunnel light type in thief proof fittings and in such a position that people readin newspapers do not strain their eyes. (See a picture of the ineterior of "F" "Q" and "Standard" stock to get a general idea of postioning) This will give a much more "cosy" appearance to the interior.

12. All cars should be walk through and maybe articulated between the trailers. Seating should be a mixture with trailer cars all longitudinal and DM's UNDM's longitudinal one side and transverse the other. This will benefit the longer distance rider.

13. All doors hould have there own door fault light over them individually. An yellow coloured square shaped LED. Beside that a white passenger alarm LED to indicate the exact position of the alarm operated. Trailers with de-icing equipment have a blue LED centrally on the body.

14. CABS. Should have a plug type door with an opening vent window incorporated into it in the same fashion as the Tyne & Wear Metro does now. The drivers desk should be of a flat "touch" type TV screen which should incorporate all the features of a train equipment thingy in one location. In fact the whole kit should be mounted in front of the driver including banks of MCB's instead of being scattered about the cab. The screen should also incoporate the on-car camera viewers in multi-screen mode. If any screen is touched to get a better view it should auto enlarge to fill the whole display do so. So if a driver sees a fight or whatever going on somehwere back along the train he can touch the screen and see the thing better. This will enable him to inform the relevant of the situation better without leaving his cab.

15. Information/destination displays should be a brighter colour than red or orange although some of the newer (Northern Group) orange bus displays are very clear indeed.

16. The stock must NOT be "handed"

There you are lads they are some of the ideas I have had. I am sure that here are many more that you can think of. If the designers see all the input they MAY use some of it to get the whole thing right straight off without having to do expensive mods later on. By-the-way the stock should be designed to last 50 years with a half-life refurb.

I calculate that to provide enough trains for ALL the SSL lines there will have to be 380 3 car units and 330 UNDM'S. that is including the "float" for damaged/defective OOS stock

[Deleted]

Some excellent suggestions there, Q8, although I suspect many of the specs will already have been decided upon including "as cheap as possible".

Two essential (but extremely easy) things which are a MUST are screenwash and a lit speedo! Two of the things which would have made the refurb a bit better, but they never bothered with.

The idea of having touch-screen technology is very good, but I suspect that would be far too expensive to install in all of the new trains!
Saloon CCTV should indeed be viewable from the drivers cab, as it is (or was) on the 96 stock. Obviously only when the train is stationary to prevent the driver being distracted.

I'll have a think what else would make the trains more user friendly...

[q8]

The idea of having touch-screen technology is very good, but I suspect that would be far too expensive to install in all of the new trains!
Saloon CCTV should indeed be viewable from the drivers cab, as it is (or was) on the 96 stock. Obviously only when the train is stationary to prevent the driver being distracted.

I'll have a think what else would make the trains more user friendly!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks Alan. I hope the powers-that-be DO see the list and realise that even though it may be more expensive to start with it will save lots of dosh later on.

"No pain, no gain" comes to mind

[Colin]

I agree with Alan, screen wash and illumunated speedo's would be agood start. As for motors, leave them as they are now!! Motored cars carry the neccesary shoe gear to get traction current from the tracks to the trains - when going over large rail gaps, we want as many as possible picking up power!
The doors need to be of the double type rather than the single leaf we have at present. I think plug type doors would be a mistake as they take longer to open and close - no good on a metro service with limited time at the platform. Q8 - you seem to have a fasination with door fault indicator lights. If a door fails to close, it will be obvious as it will be the only one open!! I think 24 lights on the side of the train would be a little excessive - one on each car as present works well enough.
As far as i'm aware, underground stock does not permit 'walk through' cars as there are some tight bends on the network making it difficult to achieve (yes, I know articulated trains have been suggested - but I think, scuppered for the same reason). It would be something i'd like to see though.
CCTV of the cars being shown in cabs - great idea. I would assume that like other lines of late, we'll get in cab views of the platform monitors as well, so it wouldn't be too hard to achieve both.
The seating would really depend on wether the stock is going to be swappable with other lines. Which leads nicely onto the technical issues. The new plastic stock is supposed to be the same on all lines - my understanding is that this will only apply with regard to ease of maintence as all parts will be generic. The lines would continue with separate allocated stock as they do now - with the number of cars in a train deing dependant on the line that train is running on.
Obviously, it would be a major benefit if a circle could be reformed into a met at a moments notice, but, I don't feel it will really come about.

[towerman]

You won't get MA's, static convertors are all the rage now,no moving parts,cuts down on maintenance.

[towerman]

I think they will be 7 cars no matter where they're running,isn't there a project for 7 cars on the Circle at the moment?

[Admin Team]

Whilst not wishing to appear a smartarse killjoy on this thread, I've a feeling that I did report (probably 18months ago now) on the upgrade plans for the SSL's.

Browse the site and come back with comments by all means.

AFAIK these still remain in place.......

[Deleted]

admin said:

Whilst not wishing to appear a smartarse killjoy on this thread, I've a feeling that I did report (probably 18months ago now) on the upgrade plans for the SSL's.

Browse the site and come back with comments by all means.

AFAIK these still remain in place.......

Indeed! I knew I'd read them somewhere!

The link to the page is HERE but the main text is as follows:

It is intended that there will be a 'uniform' stock for all the SSR lines that will offer improved top speed and comfort. It is anticipated that the new stock will also be equipped with Automatic Train Operation (ATO) and Automatic Train Protection (ATP) equipment, although signalling systems will need to be replaced before these capabilities can be used. The provision of air-conditioning is also a possibility.

There are two major factors that will need to be taken into account as far as the new trains are concerned:

The present the length of the trains made up of the three stocks varies considerably. The A Stock is comprised of 8 cars, each of approximately 50ft in length. The C Stock trains are made up of 6 cars, each of approximately 50ft and the D Stock trains comprise 6 cars, each approximately 60ft in length.
The seating configuration of each of the three stocks also differs greatly – the A Stock has a relatively high number of seats, the C Stock relatively few. The D Stock falls between the two.
It is intended that the first of these factors will be overcome by the following means:

The trains will have car lengths of 50ft (approx).
Trains for the Metropolitan Line will be made up of 8 cars, as at present.
The trains for the 'T Cup' service will be made up of 6 cars – again as at present.
The D Stock (when it is finally replaced) will be made up of 7 cars, which will roughly equate to the existing trains.
How the second factor is to be addressed though is less clear. Whether there will be a standard interior layout irrespective of the route on which the train is being operated or perhaps there could be an airliner-style facility to reconfigure the interiors according to the route operated by being able to slot in or out seating as deemed appropriate for the route. Personally I think this is unlikely, the plans to date seem to suggest a compromise seating arrangement. I am sure this will become clearer once the plans for the trains are more advanced.

One matter that is clear though is that each car will have three sets of double doors – a major problem with the D Stock is the single leaf door configuration which are slow to open and close and which result in extended 'dwell times' at stations.

At this point the total number of trains in service will have risen to 173 and – as implied above – will be a mix of the old and new fleets. The projection is that the District line will require two more trains, the new 'T Cup' service a further five and the Metropolitan Line a further sixteen to allow for the extended service to Barking.

(I hope Dave didn't mind me quoting the main page on here!)

[Colin]

You could have put that link in BEFORE I searched all through Daves website trying to find it!! ;D

I think the T cup idea would be too confusing for staff and customers. If we're gonna loose the Circle line (best idea LUL has ever had!), some one should have the guts to just cut it dead. It would make the junctions like the Aldgate area easier to operate and help with service reliabillity and frequencies. Ok it wouldn't be good for customers, having to change at Earls Court or Aldgate East, but I think the bigger picture would justify it.

That's my two pence worth anyway.

[yellowsignal]

how about dustfilters in the ventilation system?

[Deleted]

I was under the impression that the designs for the fleet had already taken place and now is all waiting to be built ??

Anyway, i agree with everything tha has been said near enough, however i do have some other suggestions for the cab.

Imagine the 95 / 96ts, then make it into a bigger train. The design of the desk is good, plus the seat and with the TBC to the left, failing that, have a cab a bit like the 375 / 377 series of electrostar.

RE the MCBs, i think they are better suited to the bulkhead, otehrwise if they are on the desk in front of you, there is a chance that you could trip them out by mistake, this i believe, being the reason why they are always out of arms reach.

As i have said, if the cab was a bit like 375 or 377 EMU, that couldnt be too bad, i wouldnt really want to go away from traditional speedos, and panel buttons for this that and everything else to the fact that its all done from a touchscreen computer!

Its all very well designing such high tech stock, however a bit of 'tradition' wouldnt go a miss, basing it on the fact of the CIS that has been put on the refurb d stock, i hate to think what it would be like when T/ops have to start using computers to do anything / everything!

Towerman is quite correct, MAs are a thing of the past now, the equivilant is the static convertor. Some stock, for example the 73ts has both, purely for the air on in the drivers cab, iam sure the refurb d stock would be the same?

[trainopd78]

You are quite right. One static converter per unit has been fitter to power the D stocks cab aircon.

[Deleted]

trainopd78 said:

You are quite right. One static converter per unit has been fitter to power the D stocks cab aircon.

I thought the static converter has completely replaced the MA, not just for the air con?

[solidbond]

jim said:

trainopd78 said:

You are quite right. One static converter per unit has been fitter to power the D stocks cab aircon.

I thought the static converter has completely replaced the MA, not just for the air con?

I hope not, else I'll have to completely redo all the D stock diagrams and training notes
However, the fact is, there are still the same MAs, doing almost the same things, as there were before. The static converter, as stated above, has been added mainly for the air-con, but also now supplies the PA and CIS.