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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2011 17:43:49 GMT
True... ATO will one day control all of the trains in the future and train drivers will no longer exist... Straying OT, but.. How do the controllers do their job at the moment? Maybe sometime in the future, ATO systems will be able to do some of the things controllers do? |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2011 17:54:41 GMT
How do the controllers do their job at the moment? Maybe sometime in the future, ATO systems will be able to do some of the things controllers do? It's also possible you could have a station assistant or even someone in a remote control room opening and closing the doors and starting the train. I personally wouldn't agree with this due to safety but it would be possible. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2011 18:38:17 GMT
Also you may have noticed next station audio is now played twice - presumably an unintended glitch that might seem trivial but I'm sure is extremely annoying to many. Is there any information on how this announcement is being triggered? If it is triggered by signalling, then duplication could be because old signals are still in place. One message triggered by the new train TBTC computer, the other from the original train management system (TMS) which still annouces next station based on a crude timer. Until the TMS software gets updated the dual annoucements are here to stay :-( |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2011 19:19:33 GMT
Well, they open and close doors, start the train in stations, monitor systems and also have the power to stop the train in emergencies in ATO mode... They also have the power to run in coded manual. With the train technology today and for at least the next 30 years at bare minimum it is unlikely the controller duties will change much.
To the future though...
Due to the size of the tube tunnels on deep level lines, there will be I presume a member of staff on board at all times in case of evacuation... However, Tunneled railways such as the DLR are more modern and have walkways by the track, allowing easy and safe evacuation... So more modern tunnels are more likely to allow for a staffless operation... It will happen one day, but only when technology advances a hell of a lot!
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Post by rincew1nd on Jan 12, 2011 20:38:15 GMT
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Post by jamesb on Jan 12, 2011 20:52:08 GMT
I think that tubepassenger was referring to line controllers rather then drivers... I imagine the line controllers have a lot to do right now... It must be a bit like moving house... I am assuming they have a lot of new equiptment etc? I don't like the general principles of this TBTC malarkey... It seems like to many computers calculating things and potential for a miscalculation! What is wrong with the central line way of doing things? I can't see how much closer trains can get to each other then they do on the central line - one left oxford circus today, and the next one entered almost immediatly after... Well, they open and close doors, start the train in stations, monitor systems and also have the power to stop the train in emergencies in ATO mode... They also have the power to run in coded manual. With the train technology today and for at least the next 30 years at bare minimum it is unlikely the controller duties will change much. To the future though... Due to the size of the tube tunnels on deep level lines, there will be I presume a member of staff on board at all times in case of evacuation... However, Tunneled railways such as the DLR are more modern and have walkways by the track, allowing easy and safe evacuation... So more modern tunnels are more likely to allow for a staffless operation... It will happen one day, but only when technology advances a hell of a lot! |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2011 20:58:52 GMT
What is wrong with the central line way of doing things? I can't see how much closer trains can get to each other then they do on the central line - one left oxford circus today, and the next one entered almost immediatly after... See my post in the "Central line ATP" thread. You need an unoccupied block between the trains with the Central line system. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2011 23:28:24 GMT
Central Line is full of computers of sorts, Westrace interlocking (programmed logic), JTC track circuits (processor based), control centre and local site computers, ATO controllers on trains.
Similarly to TBTC, it is all fail safe tested and proven products, just different concepts to the end game. Central system has I think a much better graceful degradation of control if failures occur, whereas TBTC tends to fail spectacularly. There is a lot more hardware to look after on the Central than on the Jubilee TBTC system, although it does seem bizarre to take out Westrace on the Jubilee and replace it with a form of previous generation relay interlocking system.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2011 23:31:05 GMT
Just wait until all cars drive themselves. I find it sad to see yet another job de-skilled and made more boring, with inevitable consequences in changes to staff conditions in the future. I guess if I'd have had to work on an ATO Line it would be the Central where at least the trains travel at a decent speed! I wonder if there will be an exodus of T/Ops from Jubilee Line in the medium term? (Notwithstanding the fact that cross-transfer moves are already difficult in the current economic climate and that many Jubilee drivers have elected to change lines long before TBTC was on the horizon.) I suppose with the present-day LU obession with SPADs that's one benefit of ATO working mind you. The deskilling to me is quite scary as drivers will no longer really need to have an intimate knowledge of the line they work on. In TBTC manual mode the computer will display exactly how fast they can go right down to its method of stopping in stations. Route knowledge for drivers - signal locations, numbers, gradients, speed limit changes will be a thing of the past. I wonder how much route knowledge DLR CSA's have because as I understand it they can be trained up in just 8 weeks and their role is similar to a Jubilee/Central line T/Op with the exception that they have to do customer service and ticket checks as well. |
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Post by Tomcakes on Jan 13, 2011 0:24:25 GMT
The deskilling to me is quite scary as drivers will no longer really need to have an intimate knowledge of the line they work on. In TBTC manual mode the computer will display exactly how fast they can go right down to its method of stopping in stations. Route knowledge for drivers - signal locations, numbers, gradients, speed limit changes will be a thing of the past. I'd assume that, in the short term at least, drivers will still require the same level of knowledge. Longer term - if I may be the devils advocate - if we have an automatic system, which even when in manual mode displays how fast the driver may safely go etc, is there a need for drivers to know this - and it it scary that they wouldn't? I'd assume that when the ATO has failed the train would be driven at a slow speed anyway. The DLR point is a good one that I'd be interested to hear the answer to. |
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Post by edwin on Jan 13, 2011 1:53:41 GMT
Only Northern is pretty well guarenteed to get it as far as I know. Picadilly maybe in a few years, but I don't think any others will. Regarding the speed differences being experienced, I believe the system has very good regulation built in, so running the current timetable allows the trains to cruise at a slow pace to space themselves out if early / on time, but can go like a rocket if running late. Until the timetable increases the need for more trains or speed I don't think we will see much difference on a typical journey. Hmm. Im not sure I believe you with this. The Wednesday before last I travelled on the Jubilee from Westminster to Kilburn and it raced into stations like on the Victoria/Central. Fast forward to this week and everything is at snail's pace. I'm certain that last Wednesday the trains were in ATO mode. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2011 2:27:33 GMT
In my opinion you will be able tell if the train is being manually driven as the driver may use more braking than the ATO system which seems to use a very low brake application. My technique is to get rid of most of the speed (down to 10 mph) before the halfway point is reached down the platform and then come to a controlled and accurate stop. (well thats what I'd do, I'm not a driver)
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2011 2:32:14 GMT
[quote Hmm. Im not sure I believe you with this. The Wednesday before last I travelled on the Jubilee from Westminster to Kilburn and it raced into stations like on the Victoria/Central. Fast forward to this week and everything is at snail's pace. I'm certain that last Wednesday the trains were in ATO mode.[/quote]
I don't see why you shouldn't believe it. When not in ATO don't the drivers get given a target speed - fast or slow? The Jubilee seems prone to gaps building in the service at the moment, probably because the old system is still in use north of Dollis Hill. When I got on at Bond Street once, I'm sure the train was in ATO - the driver was standing up looking out of the front the front window that is away from the controls. THere was quite a gap between the following services. The train didn't go very fast but by the time I'd reached Canada Water, the gaps had been magically evened out. Once the whole line has gone over to the new system, and once the bugs have been ironed out, you'll probably get performance like the central/victoria
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Post by jamesb on Jan 13, 2011 11:59:13 GMT
Isn't it possible that trains on the jubilee line could stop in undesirable locations... There must be places that its not safe or not desirable for a train to stop, like half way over a set of points, half way into a station etc... I assume that with fixed blocks on the central line this is less possible, but with TBTC the trains can theoretically stop in any location they find themselves in when they are close enough to the train in front? Does this explanation of the DLR signalling apply to the new jubilee line? www.xs4all.nl/~dodger/tech.htm |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2011 13:37:42 GMT
Is there no incentive to install TBTC across the network? With the exxception of the Central and Victoria a standardized ATO system could be used. Even the Central could be converted to TBTC when new stock arrives and I understand this will be sooner than otherwise expected. It would also require only one system to be installed on the sections of track shared by the Piccadilly and District/Metropolitan.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2011 15:16:01 GMT
I think that tubepassenger was referring to line controllers rather then drivers... I imagine the line controllers have a lot to do right now... It must be a bit like moving house... I am assuming they have a lot of new equiptment etc? I don't like the general principles of this TBTC malarkey... It seems like to many computers calculating things and potential for a miscalculation! Indeed. Since we were talking about automation, I was speculating if it was possible (doesn't mean desirable) to automate/assist some of what line controllers do. Is everything still in ATO? I haven't experienced the uncomfortable stop-start speed hunting described by others, but I did notice that the trains don't align perfectly with the PEDs. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2011 16:11:32 GMT
Been away for a few days, which started (unusually for me) with a morning rush hour trip on the Jubilee Line on Monday, from Canning Town to Waterloo. Now as many of the team in our office had been badly held up on two of the four workdays of the previous week, I had some hope that things might be settling down and showing the benefits of the new signals we have all waited years to enjoy.
Down to the platform at Canning Town, larger crowd than normal, trains in 1, 7 and 8 minutes, so notably uneven (much more frequent going the other way). Eventually in comes the train, absolutely packed, can't have been one for a long time. Try at three doors before an appeal for space (I'm only small) gets me squeezed in to one of the single doors. PA announcement being made "If you can't board, another one right behind". Now I know my English is not perfect at times, but "right behind" does not seem to describe a train now showing as 6 minutes (which of course is only theory as it cannot have started its journey from Stratford yet). And surely after such an interval that will be equally packed. After several such announcements, and more than a minute waiting, the last time it is said there is a subtle change, to "... right behind [loudly], er - 5 minutes [sotto voce]".
So we eventually closed the doors, leaving many behind, and even more eventually started off. Of course when we got to North Greenwich, where it is mostly attempts to get in rather than out, there were notably more left behind there. At each station our driver, poor girl, has to announce (twice) the doors are closing, then there is some delay before they do close, and more delay before starting.
A announcement is made, after we start, a second later the brakes go on, and then we start again, that we are not to lean on the doors. Excuse me, but how do we avoid this when the passengers around me do little steps of readjustment and we are all squished against every surface inside?
Canary Wharf is an exodus, not as many as I would expect, and quite a few get in. After Canada Water we are as packed as ever. I notice that at every station we leave people behind, London Bridge being the worst.
It seems to have taken many minutes longer than normal to get here (in fact so much so I miss my first choice of main train and have to fall back on the second one). Notice the platform going the other way is packed, people queueing back from it towards the escalators. Up the escalators, notice absolutely nobody coming down. When we get to the top we see the barriers closed and many, many hundreds waiting to get through. The escalators on up into the main railway staton are sealed off so I have to go out into the street and walk around to another entrance. Good thing I know the way.
So that's life on the Jubilee Line a few weeks after all the investment is turned on. Yes, the trains are slower than they used to be (especially getting the doors closed and starting) and are less regular. As others write, yes, they do jiggle around with the brakes on-off-on-off (great when you can't even reach one of the handrails). Yes, I noticed too they don't line up as well with the doors on the platforms as well as when the drivers did it themelves (train seems to stop a bit too soon). Yes, many people are left behind on platforms.
And this is what we had four years of no weekend trains for. Oh well, only another eight years to wait for Crossrail to come through.
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Post by Ben on Jan 13, 2011 21:55:30 GMT
Look its not a question of just turning it on; there isn't a big switch with the words 'more better' underneath. You can test as much as you want but things fail in testing and in real life. Its only been a relatively short time since it came online, and what with the inherant fragmentation/outsourcing/privitisation of the system imposed by both the conservatives and labour (and to a certain extent brussels), is it any wonder the result is dubious?  Yes, its rubbish; yes london is a laughing stock for its infrastructure and transport projects; and yes noone is likely to hold their hand up and say 'its my fault, you got me', but I sincerely doubt its TfLs fault. Its like blaming the telephone opperator for a bad connection. I recon the engineers that work for TfL do a good job, or at least try to; Engineering of any description isn't a career you do if you don't enjoy it, because, frankly, it can be too much of a PITA at times to not need to have an overwhelming passion for. I recon the problem is that the people who want it are different from the people who check it, who are different from the people that make it, who are different from the people that install it, who are different from the people that accept it, who are different from the people who use it, who are different from the Shylocks holding the purse strings, etc etc etc. Bitch about TfL all you want, but youre only attacking the symptoms, not the disease. |
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Post by rincew1nd on Jan 13, 2011 22:23:38 GMT
Look its not a question of just turning it on; there isn't a big switch with the words 'more better' underneath. You can test as much as you want but things fail in testing and in real life. Its only been a relatively short time since it came online, and what with the inherant fragmentation/outsourcing/privitisation of the system imposed by both the conservatives and labour (and to a certain extent brussels), is it any wonder the result is dubious? Yes, its rubbish; yes london is a laughing stock for its infrastructure and transport projects; and yes noone is likely to hold their hand up and say 'its my fault, you got me', but I sincerely doubt its TfLs fault. Its like blaming the telephone opperator for a bad connection. I recon the engineers that work for TfL do a good job, or at least try to; Engineering of any description isn't a career you do if you don't enjoy it, because, frankly, it can be too much of a PITA at times to not need to have an overwhelming passion for. I recon the problem is that the people who want it are different from the people who check it, who are different from the people that make it, who are different from the people that install it, who are different from the people that accept it, who are different from the people who use it, who are different from the Shylocks holding the purse strings, etc etc etc. Bitch about TfL all you want, but youre only attacking the symptoms, not the disease. +1 (and no, I haven't mis-posted from the Quiz section!) |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2011 22:47:11 GMT
Look its not a question of just turning it on; there isn't a big switch with the words 'more better' underneath. You can test as much as you want but things fail in testing and in real life. Its only been a relatively short time since it came online, and what with the inherant fragmentation/outsourcing/privitisation of the system imposed by both the conservatives and labour (and to a certain extent brussels), is it any wonder the result is dubious? Yes, its rubbish; yes london is a laughing stock for its infrastructure and transport projects; and yes noone is likely to hold their hand up and say 'its my fault, you got me', but I sincerely doubt its TfLs fault. Its like blaming the telephone opperator for a bad connection. I recon the engineers that work for TfL do a good job, or at least try to; Engineering of any description isn't a career you do if you don't enjoy it, because, frankly, it can be too much of a PITA at times to not need to have an overwhelming passion for. I recon the problem is that the people who want it are different from the people who check it, who are different from the people that make it, who are different from the people that install it, who are different from the people that accept it, who are different from the people who use it, who are different from the Shylocks holding the purse strings, etc etc etc. Bitch about TfL all you want, but youre only attacking the symptoms, not the disease. +1 (and no, I haven't mis-posted from the Quiz section!) I heartily endorse this. There's a difference between providing a 'customer perspective' and just unending, myopic whining. I get frustrated when things go wrong as well, but I do try and put it in the perspective of what is trying to be achieved. Despite the recent issues, I really have seen a change for the better in the Jubilee line. |
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Post by londonstuff on Jan 13, 2011 23:14:12 GMT
+1 (and no, I haven't mis-posted from the Quiz section!) I heartily endorse this. There's a difference between providing a 'customer perspective' and just unending, myopic whining. I get frustrated when things go wrong as well, but I do try and put it in the perspective of what is trying to be achieved. Despite the recent issues, I really have seen a change for the better in the Jubilee line. I have to say that I'm still with Diana on this: it's people like her that experience it first hand when things go wrong: having 8-minute gaps between trains in rush hour, people being left behind from platforms or even stations and then having to pay for this privilege. If there were any private companies that gave service like that, they'd probably be out of business by now. That said, I'm certainly not attaching blame to the front-end staff who have borne the brunt of the problems for the last few years. I assume Diana's point was to balance out the (perhaps?) too positive view of the upgrade now that it's seemingly permanently live and give it from a daily user's point of view. Hopefully the people in charge of implementing the upgrade are noticing what Diana and other have said about gaps in the service, lining up the PEDs properly, arbitrary speed restrictions for no apparent reason and trying to rectify it, etc. Even drivers on the Jub pointed out that at present it's probably no faster end-to-end, but does have potential to be good. Let's hope that 'they' are also learning huge lessons for the Northern upgrade, which I doubt it very far down the road (and in a thread somewhere a couple of years ago I offered to give someone on the forum my house if it was completed for the then target of the Olympics  ). One could argue that people are attacking the system not the disease, but who else is there to hold accountable? No one.  But Diana, you can say good things occasionally too.  |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2011 0:51:53 GMT
Name me one major ATP/ATO upgrade that hasn't had issues like this in the first 6 months of operation? Answer = None. You have to ride the storm, and in fact from what I have seen the JL in its first couple of weeks has actually done pretty well compared to all the upgrades like it over the last couple of decades. There have been no complete service shutdowns for hours caused directly and solely down to the new system in the new year.
How can you upgrade anything like the JL without problems? I use the JL every day, and the root issue is the demand. It only takes one train to drop off the system and the knock on effect it huge, a bit like an accident on the M25 in the rush hour - from the end users point of view not good.
It could have been a whole lot worse in my opinion so those still working on improving it and those keeping it going in its first few days of operation deserve a big pat on the back - it can't be easy for anyone with such a change in systems, with maintenance, repairs and operations so different to before. Cut them some slack for those who have not run away from the project are clearly dedicated in seeing it through.
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Post by tubeprune on Jan 14, 2011 8:02:07 GMT
sw206 is right. This project is very, very difficult. You start with an old system (LU standard signalling) that was modified with Westinghouse additions for PEDs and future ATO, you add a different contractor (Alcatel) to put in the control equipment at Neasden, you then change the management at LU (company plan) and then do it again with the PPP, you then split the engineering on the same railway (Metronet and Tube Lines) and then you introduce a new signalling contractor (Thales) to supply the ATO and the same contractor but different division to resignal Neasden depot but to a different spec. and you change the management again halfway through the project (Tube Lines bought by TfL). Then you've got "old" trains to retrofit whilst in service (oh and you lengthen them in the middle of this). You try to do all this whilst running a train service and then you wonder why you get problems. You couldn't have made this up. I think the people trying to get all this to work deserve our support, even if they don't always get it from their political management.
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Post by version3point1 on Jan 14, 2011 22:58:10 GMT
Some of the "engineers" that sit on the test trains week after week during closures have never driven trains, will never drive trains and most probably haven't worked on a station when it has gone tits up in their life. Ever. They just sit there, with a laptop plugged into the train, monitoring numbers and green lights – so long as the computer says everything's okay, it must be okay – who gives a flying hoot about a particular problem a particular driver has pointed out time and time again. He's just a troublemaker, of course! For nearly TWO YEARS I've been asking practically any Jubilee line senior manager I can get ahold of to sort out our Ready To Depart Indicators (RTDI). Most of us by now know that the RTDI on the platform is 'supposed' to tell you when the train is ready to depart (hence the name). Well – what do you do when you've got two RTDIs because you've got two trains on separate platforms going in the same direction? One should illuminate first, then the other, right? That way you know whether platform 1 is first as opposed to platform 2. WRONG. They both come on – at the same time. So much for providing the correct information to the punters - by the time you've walked up to the drivers or called up the signalman to find out what's going on, you can guarantee one train would've left leaving a whole bunch of confused and irate people who don't see it as quite as simple as walking across the platform to the other train 'because it's the principal of the matter'. And there are other problems elsewhere on the line that people have been harping on about since this whole saga began! We want to see an end to the issues as much as the paying public do. If the people responsible for implementing the changes, and the middle-men, actually listened to some of the feedback operational staff have actually offered and dealt with some of the real-life problems we experience on the ground, then this whole project would've moved along a little more smoothly and with a little less agitation from myself and my colleagues who have basically just lost all hope – I can't even be bothered to stand there on the platform any more trying to justify TBTC and defend myself. I sell it how it is - and the passengers thank me for the honesty – a badly-planned, poorly-thought out operation that just has its fingers and toes crossed that it will sort itself out for 2012. I've been off for three weeks, my blood pressure has been given some well-earnt time to settle and I've been catching up on sleep finally. Will some of the issues I've raised in formal correspondence have been dealt with by the time I get back to work next week?...  As for diana – I don't mind her. I respect the fact that as a punter, she's come on here, amidst a lot of partially-biased views (it is a forum made up of predominantly enthusiasts and staff alike) and had a well-constructed moan that's not personally aimed at anybody. Far better than the names I've been called and the abuse I've put up with over the years thanks to this TBTC. Anyway – time for a cuppa. Just thinking about the Jubilee line again forces me to find a distraction... On a more positive note... we'll get there? Eventually? |
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Post by Chris M on Jan 15, 2011 14:25:42 GMT
Eventually is the word for it unless they sort out platform entry speeds. It took 2 minutes from "train approaching" to train berthed in platform at Canning Town westbound last night. Previously this would be closer to 30 seconds.
Speeds into PED stations didn't seem so bad, but un-edged platforms felt glacial.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2011 14:27:42 GMT
It took 2 minutes from "train approaching" to train berthed in platform at Canning Town westbound last night. Previously this would be closer to 30 seconds. Speeds into PED stations didn't seem so bad, but un-edged platforms felt glacial. I can understand maybe if it's in manual TBTC, if the driver has no distance to go display for the next target speed then how are they supposed to know when to slow down? I wouldn't have expected it in ATO though. |
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Post by plasmid on Jan 15, 2011 16:28:55 GMT
So that's life on the Jubilee Line a few weeks after all the investment is turned on. Yes, the trains are slower than they used to be (especially getting the doors closed and starting) and are less regular. Perhaps if you've been reading through this thread rather than bickering you might understand that the old system is still in use on part of the Jubilee Line hence the gaps in service and that some trains are running in TBTC and some are in ATO hence the differences. The system isn't complete until late spring 2011 according to TFL so please, useful books like the one you just wrote are best written to TFL. Additionally, there is a "Rant Area" on this forum, I think you would be better off creating a thread in their about the Jubilee Line. Cheers. Even the Central could be converted to TBTC when new stock arrives and I understand this will be sooner than otherwise expected. It won't be sooner than expected. They will be used for 35 years which is the Design Life. Why else would they have just spent millions of pounds on the new Siemens bogies (I prefer the term subframes)? Additionally the new windows, lighting, seats, end of carriage panels including windows etc. |
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Post by version3point1 on Jan 15, 2011 19:19:31 GMT
The system isn't complete until late spring 2011 according to TFL so please, useful books like the one you just wrote are best written to TFL. Bear in mind however, that the system was supposed to be in fantastic and glorious ATO from December 2009, as a sign in our messroom continually reminded us until somebody decided to rip it off the wall on the year anniversary of what should've been. TfL put that up – so until it's all bedded and actually materialises, let's not throw dates around. It's not the first time we've all stood there, hands on hips, and said, "TfL said it was going to be ready now..." Eventually is the word for it unless they sort out platform entry speeds. It took 2 minutes from "train approaching" to train berthed in platform at Canning Town westbound last night. Previously this would be closer to 30 seconds. Speeds into PED stations didn't seem so bad, but un-edged platforms felt glacial. The approach to Canning Town on the westbound has got a signal that has made a name for itself as being one of the top 10 to be a SPAD – with the track curving and going slightly downhill on the approach to Canning Town, it can be easy to miss, so if the target speed is shown as something a bit faster than what was common in tripcock, I guess some drivers just want to be extra careful. Standing there with the train allegedly approaching is a start though – I just hate standing there, having the VDUs say the train's approaching and then... *BAM* somehow we managed to go back in time 3 minutes. |
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Post by messiah on Jan 15, 2011 23:04:42 GMT
Name me one major ATP/ATO upgrade that hasn't had issues like this in the first 6 months of operation? Answer = None. Which could equally be a sign of a culture of incompetence? Still it will be nice when the new system is up and running, and we can all get on a tube at Canada Water without waiting for 3 to go past, absolutely packed (and the tubes at Canada Water in rush hour are as busy as anywhere - there literally is no space to squeeze anyone in at many of the doors as they were packed at London Bridge, and filled more at Bermondsey). This is particularly a problem now with all the Overground passangers coming. And it would be nice when getting to canary wharf that the platform doors would open every time, rather than leaving you pulling at them desperately |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2011 0:37:33 GMT
Name me one major ATP/ATO upgrade that hasn't had issues like this in the first 6 months of operation? Answer = None. Which could equally be a sign of a culture of incompetence? That and the problem 3.1 mentioned. From the engineer's perspective, testing can only be as good as the specifications demanded from the software. If the requirement was never defined, there is no test case and therefore no green light to look out for. It seems, the testing, the contractor changes, management changes, are all problems originating from those who make the important decisions. |
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