Bank Retunnelling

[Deleted]

www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/media/newscentre/17824.aspx

Would this give the Northern line platforms at Bank a wider space like there is at Euston

[Deleted]

I don't think so. The Northern Line platforms, aren't very wide, but are next to each other in the classic two-platform style.

Euston (C&SLR) had a single platform tunnel, with a rather narrow island platform in the middle. The wide space is on the southbound platform, which used to be the island.
www.abandonedstations.org.uk/Euston_station_3.html
details this.

[Deleted]

More likely to be like London Bridge than Euston, I'd say.

[Deleted]

Dec 20, 2010 18:51:28 GMT @rhubarbrhubarb said:

More likely to be like London Bridge than Euston, I'd say.

London Bridge was also an island platform originally. But the layout was changed in a different manner, by boring two new platform tunnels alongside the existing one and turning the original into a circulating space.

[Deleted]

Ummmm .... not the Northern line at London Bridge, I think. London Bridge was like Bank - two platform tunnels close together. At London Bridge, for the JLE works, what was the southbound platform tunnel was turned into a concourse, so that escalators could be put down into it. A new southbound tunnel and platform tunnel were bored. The narrow access openings between what is now the concourse and what is still the old northbound platform give the game away.

[Deleted]

Dec 20, 2010 19:10:18 GMT @rhubarbrhubarb said:

Ummmm .... not the Northern line at London Bridge, I think. London Bridge was like Bank - two platform tunnels close together. At London Bridge, for the JLE works, what was the southbound platform tunnel was turned into a concourse, so that escalators could be put down into it. A new southbound tunnel and platform tunnel were bored. The narrow access openings between what is now the concourse and what is still the old northbound platform give the game away.

Quite different to what I heard, but now thinking about it makes sense. The tunnel in the middle did seem a little on the small side for an island.

[Deleted]

I'd be interested to take part in the consultation. Do you know if there will be a public one at some point?

I'd like to know (and the press release doesn't mention these points) whether there'll be any more connections between the lines, such as down to the DLR or to the Central line. I presume that the King William Street entrance will be about half-way along the Northern line platforms. If so, how will it link up? Is this where the express lifts will be? Will these lifts continue on down to the DLR (probably no particular need here, but an extra escalator down somehow wouldn't go amiss!)...

There's no picture that I've seen so far. Anyone seen one?

[edwin]

So it'll take 6 years... Nearly longer than the entire Crossrail project. Are they planning on using teaspoons to construct this?

[Deleted]

have you been to bank recently? It's hardly the easiest station to work with (and to keep open presumably while they do it)

[Deleted]

I'd imagine the large amount of time is because they are going to keep Northern Line running (and serving old platforms) during the works.

[Deleted]

i wonder how much extra it would cost to dig an extra tunnel whiel you're at it between bank and moorgate so that the DLR can run to Finsbury Park?!

(or is that a bit cheeky?)

[Deleted]

Cheeky or not, I don't think it would work - as DLR is very deep and under Northern line, and Northern City line is not as deep and on top of the Northern line. Even if it would be possible to tunnel around Northern line, the gradients would be horrible.

[North End]

Dec 21, 2010 11:16:14 GMT futurix said:

Cheeky or not, I don't think it would work - as DLR is very deep and under Northern line, and Northern City line is not as deep and on top of the Northern line. Even if it would be possible to tunnel around Northern line, the gradients would be horrible.

There's also the problem that currently 6tph terminate at Moorgate off-peak, and many more in the peaks. Even with Thameslink, there wouldn't be enough capacity at King's Cross for these trains to be diverted there.

[Deleted]

Alex - I'm aware of that. I don't know how much horizontal distance you'd need, but the DLR happens to be quite good at gradients, so I was hoping that it wouldn't be completely impossible. Of course, if the gradients couldn't be supported, then maybe a new cross-platform interchange with the Northern line could be built at Moorgate as part of the Crossrail works, with the DLR continuing upwards to rejoin the Northern City line just before Old Street.

North End - My assumption is based on the probability that the DLR can probably carry just as many people as the existing service and that existing passengers would change at Finsbury Park. The trains themselves I'm not so sure about.

Anyway, to get back on track, now would be the time to think about any possible DLR extension (to wherever) as the works could be combined perhaps to achieve some overall cost reductions.

[ducatisti]

I hope they can fit it round all the piling round there.

I wonder if they can arrange it so each track has two platform faces, to allow alighting and boarding to be seperated...

[Deleted]

ducatisti, you're referring to the Northern line platforms at Bank?

[ducatisti]

yes.

[Deleted]

Dec 21, 2010 2:49:32 GMT edwin said:

So it'll take 6 years... Nearly longer than the entire Crossrail project. Are they planning on using teaspoons to construct this?

;D

Well, they do have to be mindful of existing utilities and service mains etc! ;D

Seems a shame as back in 1998 they refurbed the platforms... sort of.

[Chris M]

Dec 21, 2010 17:57:13 GMT @tubeoperator92 said:

Dec 21, 2010 2:49:32 GMT edwin said:

Seems a shame as back in 1998 they refurbed the platforms... sort of.

That's still going to be 20+ years of use they'll have had out of the work, which isn't that bad.

[Deleted]

yeah, but its a shame what they covered over... old posters from the 50's behind current 'framed' ones. Yes, I doubt they were of any value, but it was nice to see something historic uncovered. I still don't like the arrangement at London Bridge; as the NB platform still has them narrow archways. I know there is a wider cross passage further up... I bet a similar arrangement will befall Bank once its gets going?

[claphamomnibus]

If TfL is going to invest in station reconstruction on the Northern Line surely Clapham Common or Clapham North (which has a parallel set of tunnels) should be the priority. Both stations have narrow island platforms, are very overcrowded and it appears that TfL/LT and Northern Line Managers in the past have said the Claphams should be rebuilt.

Why is TfL so obdurate about the need to improve Clapham North/Common?

As a compromise, could not sidings be built at Clapham Common to allow the station to be a short-turn terminus and then permit empty trains to re-enter the northbound platform ready to absorb and clear the passengers?

[Chris M]

It could just be a relative thing - the Claphams are a bit overcrowded during the peaks, but Bank is chronically overcrowded for much longer. With a limited pot of money you have to prioritise, and fixing Bank will help more people than the Claphams.

[ianvisits]

Going back slightly to the Moorgate extension question - while linking into existing tunnels for extensions beyond Moorgate would be difficult, there would be significant benefits to extending the DLR to Moorgate itself.

Currently, southbound Northern Line trains arrive at Moorgate, few people get off and a lot want to get on. One more stop along the Northern Line to Bank, and a lot of people get off, often for the DLR.

Having the DLR at Moorgate would enable a lot more people to leave trains at a station which also coincidentally has a lot of people wanting to get on trains.

It's one stop with a lot of congestion that could be cleared by a DLR extension.

[Deleted]

Of course, those same people who transfer from the Northern to DLR will also be able to transfer to Crossrail when it opens in a decade's time. Assuming that the majority go to Canary Wharf, I suspect that the demand on the DLR at Bank will reduce when Crossrail opens.

On the other hand, any additional interchange possibilities I can only promote as a good thing.

[Ben]

Its a pity there isn't the money to

a) extend the DLR to Farringdon, KX, SP and HS2/Euston

b) rearrange the tunnels at Bank to allow cross platform between the Northern and DLR.

[Deleted]

Jan 21, 2011 18:52:11 GMT Ben said:

b) rearrange the tunnels at Bank to allow cross platform between the Northern and DLR.

That would have been cool! (especially if coupled with extension of DLR to Moorgate/Widened lines)