Stock and crew changes at Edgware Road

[Chris M]

On another thread tfc wrote:

Dec 24, 2010 12:22:52 GMT @tfc said:

Likewise District trains at Edgware Road are still District trains and they won't do anything with them other than turn them round and send them back (or nick the stock ;D ).

Which has got me wondering what happens regarding C stocks on Wimbleware services being involved in stock and crew swaps at Edgware Road.
What information do District Line controllers need/want/get about it and when do they get it?

I presume that if a C stock has a failure south of HSK that necessitates it going back to the depot that the District controllers will arrange this with their C&H counterpart? If a similar failure happens at say Bayswater I guess the District controller wont know anything about it until the return working arrives onto their territory late? Does it matter to them why it is late, or that the train that arrives southbound is not the one they sent north?

edit: fix spell-checker error.

[Colin]

The District controller will only be interested if the train becomes cancelled (ie, H&C took the stock but didn't replace it) or if it's coming back late/out of turn (ie, delay caused by swapping the stock over).

If a stock & crew (drivers & trains swapped) has occurred at Edgware Road and the train comes back on time, I don't suppose the District controller will be interested or even informed.

If a defect occurs west (south if you really must) of Notting Hill gate and a stock changeover is required, the District controller will make the Met controller aware and it'll be left to the Met controller to arrange it.

East of Notting Hill gate (North if it helps) of Notting Hill gate and the Met controller will deal with it by themselves - they'll only inform the District if it'll come back late or is cancelled as above.

A train coming back from Edgware Road late is an issue because it'll be out of turn through Earls Court, will cause a gap on the Wimbledon road (The District's busiest west end branch by a mile), could put the driver at risk of a late meal relief (ie, may not be able to pick up next train on time) or late finishing (costing the company money in overtime payments).......and of course the train will running late and out of turn on it's way back to Edgware Road from Wimbledon - with technically only one platform for reversing in at Edgware Road, well I'm sure you get the idea by now...

[Colin]

Meant to say this in the post above, but I've posted it separately as it's a point worth making separately: items.

A train which is running late or cancelled because of an event will generate an "item". Items are not solely related to the train side - many things that happen on the railway can see an item generated, but train delays are by far the main cause of item generation.

An item means that the event is recorded in several places and forms part of the process that attributes a delay, asset failure, or whatever to particular party. It then goes on to be used in the arbitration process that was formerly used within the PPP mechanism for allocating fines and bonus payments.

Anyway, without making it all too complicated, the District controller will record all items generated by District line trains - so the Met controller will have to pass on relevant details to the District controller in relation to any item generated by a District line train east (ok ok, north) of Notting Hill Gate whether or not they dealt with it exclusively.

Equally, the District controller will pass on details of any items generated in relation to Circle or H&C trains as they will be recorded by the Met controller.

The basics of an item are date, time, direction, nature of incident, assets involved and action taken. There's one or two other bit's & bob's, and traction current is recorded in a particular way, but let's not make it too complicated.

Or have I caused more confusion? ;D ;D

[Chris M]

Nope, I think I understand that.
So basically, if a C&H train is delayed on the District Line controller's railway due to a problem with the train, its passengers or crew (e.g. person ill on a H&C train at Aldgate East), the District Line controller will record all the details and pass the details to the Met controller to generate the "item"? But if the delay is caused by a District Line asset (e.g. the H&C train was delayed due to a person ill on the District Line train ahead of it) the District Line controller would generate the item and just inform the Met controller of the effects (train late, out of turn, etc) and that it was caused by a District Line asset?

On my original point, it doesn't matter to the District controller that a stock and crew swap has taken place if there is no delay to the District Line service?

[Colin]

Yep

[citysig]

Colin has more or less summed it up.

The District C-stocks will generally only be changed over for defect or if the stock is required in depot. There are occasions where the stock is "used" within reformations we are carrying out - but this will normally mean the train still goes back to the District on time.

Although the District may not need to know, generally they are told even if there is no delay. After all it may have been them that requested the changeover, or it may be on their books to be changed over later that day, in which case they can remove such a request from subsequent duty hand-overs.

We will take the stock if we are suffering stock shortages. Currently the criteria is that for every 3rd stock we have missing, we are meant to take 1 District back. This helps to balance things out. It doesn't always happen. The decision is made on a day-by-day basis dependant on whatever else may be happening.

Items.

It tends to depend on whether the delay is due to infrastructure, passenger action or if it is a staff-related matter.

For instance, if District 73 is delayed at Edgware Road by a signal failure, the Met will record the item, and the paperwork will stay on our side. The event is a result of everything Met related and our staff will be dealing with the failure from start to finish., so the paperwork will be completed by them.

But if the same train is unfortunate enough to have a SPAD at Edgware Road, then the item is passed to the District. This is because the train operator's management will be District based. (Let's not get into what catergory the SPAD was, let's just say for example it was an unfortunate error. They rarely happen, but it's the simplest example I could think of).

Passenger action will be recorded by the controller on whose patch the train is on.

There are exceptions to these general guidelines, but on the whole this is how the system is operated.

One thing that often gets overlooked at the school is that an item from a controller is a "first line report." It will generally read something like: "0830 Edgware Road, W/B T73 Passenger Action Delayed Departure.." followed by the delay in minutes. It is not the controller who then gives the details of what the passenger action was. That is down to the duty manager who is handed the item to investigate. We won't just leave them hanging without any hint of what happened. If we know some of the story we will pass it on.

[Deleted]

Dec 24, 2010 15:17:24 GMT @citysig said:

Items.

It tends to depend on whether the delay is due to infrastructure, passenger action or if it is a staff-related matter.

For instance, if District 73 is delayed at Edgware Road by a signal failure, the Met will record the item, and the paperwork will stay on our side. The event is a result of everything Met related and our staff will be dealing with the failure from start to finish., so the paperwork will be completed by them.

So for another example in yesterday afternoon's horrid 65 minute signal failure at Mansion House, the incident train (first train delayed) was a Circle but because the failure was on our infrastructure rather than caused by the Circle train in any way, all the paperwork was done by a District duty manager and the item I wrote went to him.

Also - picking up a point from earlier in the discussion, Met Control is entirely correct that the District don't really care if they do a stock and crew at Edgware Road as long as our train comes back on time. However I have learned from bitter experience (got badly caught out once) that sometimes the Egware Rd - Wimbledon trains can be running very, very late and nobody tells the District controller. So I do tend to check how they are running periodically anyway.