8/9 January service

[hollywood]

Just wondering what the rationale is in running the old Circle service this weekend when there are no track closures requiring it. The H&C is running Hammersmith-Aldgate as its eastern end is closed, but that still leaves only a half service on the Hammersmith branch. With all the weekend closures since the current service patterns began a year ago, has it become the norm to run only one of the two services to Hammersmith every weekend? Or is there an issue with reversing capacity at Edgware Rd this weekend?

Similarly, with the H&C occupying Aldgate, the Met is reversing at Moorgate. The opposite would only require one line modifying its service rather than two. (To me it would all make more sense to just run normal Circle, normal Met, and H&C turning at KX or Moorgate) The Met stopping at Willesden Green should not require short turning, as Farringdon is being non-stopped. Is it an operational preference to have the Met trains hold up the C&H as they enter and exit Moorgate, rather than the other way around? Or does having the C-stocks reversing at Aldgate make better provision for reformations when the inevitable disruption of the old Circle occurs?

(Thanks for indulging some obvious questions from an occasional tourist whose experience on the tube is all of five days; in my ramblings I probably answered some of them myself. And as I have cobbled this together from some seemingly contradictory information on the TfL site [the journey planner says the same service will run next weekend, while the track closures page does not] feel free to say if I have got it all wrong)

[Deleted]

Jan 8, 2011 4:34:06 GMT hollywood said:

Just wondering what the rationale is in running the old Circle service this weekend when there are no track closures requiring it. The H&C is running Hammersmith-Aldgate as its eastern end is closed, but that still leaves only a half service on the Hammersmith branch. With all the weekend closures since the current service patterns began a year ago, has it become the norm to run only one of the two services to Hammersmith every weekend? Or is there an issue with reversing capacity at Edgware Rd this weekend?

Similarly, with the H&C occupying Aldgate, the Met is reversing at Moorgate. The opposite would only require one line modifying its service rather than two. (To me it would all make more sense to just run normal Circle, normal Met, and H&C turning at KX or Moorgate) The Met stopping at Willesden Green should not require short turning, as Farringdon is being non-stopped. Is it an operational preference to have the Met trains hold up the C&H as they enter and exit Moorgate, rather than the other way around? Or does having the C-stocks reversing at Aldgate make better provision for reformations when the inevitable disruption of the old Circle occurs?

(Thanks for indulging some obvious questions from an occasional tourist whose experience on the tube is all of five days; in my ramblings I probably answered some of them myself. And as I have cobbled this together from some seemingly contradictory information on the TfL site [the journey planner says the same service will run next weekend, while the track closures page does not] feel free to say if I have got it all wrong)

The answer to your first question is quite simple. With Barking truncated, there simply aren't enough trains to operate the extended circle pattern, hence what we have today, old circle and Hammersmith - Aldgate.

As for the reason to terminate Met at Moorgate and H&C at Aldgate, I should imagine the reasoning is linked to providing a clear message/less inconvience to through H&C passengers heading east

You need to provide a through service of some description to the east and this weekend there is an RRBS from Aldgate, therefore C&H runs to Aldgate to connect with the bus

If the H&C were to terminate at Moorgate, passengers would be further inconvenienced by then having to change for a Met to take them to Aldgate (plus a trip over the footbridge for those who wouldn't have bothered listening to the advice to get of for a same platform connection prior to Moorgate!)

[Chris M]

Jan 8, 2011 11:08:36 GMT @shedcompnodosh said:

If the H&C were to terminate at Moorgate, passengers would be further inconvenienced by then having to change for a Met to take them to Aldgate (plus a trip over the footbridge for those who wouldn't have bothered listening to the advice to get of for a same platform connection prior to Moorgate!)

Being pedantic, it's a subway at Moorgate (with quite steep stairs iirc).

[metman]

Think there is actually both at Moorgate!

[thirstquensher]

In 12 years I've only ever found a subway connecting Northern/GN and SSL sections of Moorgate; never found this footbridge of which is spake.

[ruislip]

Jan 8, 2011 11:08:36 GMT @shedcompnodosh said:

Jan 8, 2011 4:34:06 GMT hollywood said:

Just wondering what the rationale is in running the old Circle service this weekend when there are no track closures requiring it. The H&C is running Hammersmith-Aldgate as its eastern end is closed, but that still leaves only a half service on the Hammersmith branch. With all the weekend closures since the current service patterns began a year ago, has it become the norm to run only one of the two services to Hammersmith every weekend? Or is there an issue with reversing capacity at Edgware Rd this weekend?

Similarly, with the H&C occupying Aldgate, the Met is reversing at Moorgate. The opposite would only require one line modifying its service rather than two. (To me it would all make more sense to just run normal Circle, normal Met, and H&C turning at KX or Moorgate) The Met stopping at Willesden Green should not require short turning, as Farringdon is being non-stopped. Is it an operational preference to have the Met trains hold up the C&H as they enter and exit Moorgate, rather than the other way around? Or does having the C-stocks reversing at Aldgate make better provision for reformations when the inevitable disruption of the old Circle occurs?

(Thanks for indulging some obvious questions from an occasional tourist whose experience on the tube is all of five days; in my ramblings I probably answered some of them myself. And as I have cobbled this together from some seemingly contradictory information on the TfL site [the journey planner says the same service will run next weekend, while the track closures page does not] feel free to say if I have got it all wrong)

The answer to your first question is quite simple. With Barking truncated, there simply aren't enough trains to operate the extended circle pattern, hence what we have today, old circle and Hammersmith - Aldgate.

As for the reason to terminate Met at Moorgate and H&C at Aldgate, I should imagine the reasoning is linked to providing a clear message/less inconvience to through H&C passengers heading east

You need to provide a through service of some description to the east and this weekend there is an RRBS from Aldgate, therefore C&H runs to Aldgate to connect with the bus

If the H&C were to terminate at Moorgate, passengers would be further inconvenienced by then having to change for a Met to take them to Aldgate (plus a trip over the footbridge for those who wouldn't have bothered listening to the advice to get of for a same platform connection prior to Moorgate!)

And Met passengers requiring Liverpool St, Aldgate, and points beyond could always alight anywhere starting with Great Portland St and ending at Barbican so they could stay on the same platform.

[metman]

The T/op normally advises to change at Barbican and wait on the platform. Farringdon is currently closed this weekend.

[Phil]

One for Metcontrol/Harsig:

Would Could capacity be increased by using BOTH Aldgate AND Aldgate East for reversing - or are the logistics such that it would actually make matters worse??

[superteacher]

Jan 9, 2011 17:45:49 GMT Phil said:

One for Metcontrol/Harsig:

Would Could capacity be increased by using BOTH Aldgate AND Aldgate East for reversing - or are the logistics such that it would actually make matters worse??

Aldgate East was being used to reverse the District line, so I daresay there would ne insufficient capacity to reverse anythingd else there.

[metman]

Aldgate isn't too bad for reversing West-East but you need to detrain shunt and crossover again to go East-West and that probably isn't worth it. Whitechapel would be a better place.

[Deleted]

Jan 9, 2011 17:45:49 GMT Phil said:

One for Metcontrol/Harsig:

Would Could capacity be increased by using BOTH Aldgate AND Aldgate East for reversing - or are the logistics such that it would actually make matters worse??

capacity would be increased as you could reverse the Hammersmith service at ALDGTE, thus reverting Met to ALDGT

However, if ALDGTE is available (as superteacher has already mentioned in the case of this weekend) as a reversing option it will always be taken by the District service, as the advantage this gives to the District service levels and operation, far outweighs that, that would be gained by H&C/Met