Colin
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Post by Colin on Jan 23, 2011 1:49:39 GMT
Another sardine can due to arrive next week. Rather than drip feeding us little tit bits such as this, perhaps you could you could just keep us updated in terms of actual deliveries via this newly created facility. This thread is in the frame to be locked once the newly created facility becomes fully updated (thus this thread will be surplus to requirements)....... |
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Post by deadmans on Jan 23, 2011 14:54:37 GMT
Hot off the press - was seen S8; Harrow plat3-Uxbridge Set 545 [Not in service] dpt HOTH 0145. I guess this is for testing to Uxbridge after recent problems! Good crowd in the cab, nearly as good as the crowd I was with tonight. ;D  |
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Post by deadmans on Jan 23, 2011 14:55:45 GMT
What's the world record for the greatest number of people in an S stock cab?  ;D ;D Not sure about humans, but 10 headless chickens were seen in a cab outside uxbridge last week.. ;D |
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Post by citysig on Jan 23, 2011 15:21:41 GMT
What's the world record for the greatest number of people in an S stock cab? ;D ;D Not sure about humans, but 10 headless chickens were seen in a cab outside uxbridge last week.. ;D I'm sure your colleagues will be chuffed with that description of them. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2011 17:14:53 GMT
I'm sure your colleagues will be chuffed with that description of them. MetControl, don't worry, it's only the forum's answer to Lord Haw-Haw making a fool of himself again. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2011 17:17:49 GMT
It seems they have been tuned down to match the A stock trains and in fact in trying to search for an S stock I found myself on a flying A Stock train doing 62 mph just after Dollis Hill north bound. (speed verified by GPS). By comparison the S stock train only managed 52 and very briefly too. Shouldn't be going over 50 anyway ;D ;D |
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Post by flippyff on Jan 24, 2011 20:16:29 GMT
Shouldn't be going over 50 anyway ;D ;D MPH or years? ;D |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2011 20:24:41 GMT
Shouldn't be going over 50 anyway ;D ;D MPH or years? ;D MPH- Long live the A stock. The speed was not only a reference to the verbal limit but the line speed too! |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2011 22:15:16 GMT
MPH- Long live the A stock. The speed was not only a reference to the verbal limit but the line speed too! Line speed on the met is as high as 60 in some places and if you class north of Amersham to Mantles wood where BR takes over as the met, there are 70mph linespeeds too! |
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Post by citysig on Jan 24, 2011 22:49:42 GMT
...and if you class north of Amersham to Mantles wood where BR takes over as the met, there are 70mph linespeeds too! If we find an A-stock doing 70mph there, then I think management may do something of a U-turn and re-instate the A-stock. That kind of speed without the aid of electricity will reduce not only our carbon footprint, but also journey times to Aldgate ;D ;D The A60s shouldn't be found doing more than 50mph, and remember that those GPS thingies could be wrong. We wouldn't want to land any driver in the brown stuff now would we |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2011 23:00:46 GMT
Line speed on the met is as high as 60 in some places and if you class north of Amersham to Mantles wood where BR takes over as the met, there are 70mph linespeeds too! That's on the shared section though isn't it. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2011 23:43:11 GMT
...and if you class north of Amersham to Mantles wood where BR takes over as the met, there are 70mph linespeeds too! The A60s shouldn't be found doing more than 50mph, and remember that those GPS thingies could be wrong. We wouldn't want to land any driver in the brown stuff now would we My GPS wasn't wrong - I have 3 of them and to avoid getting the driver in trouble I haven't mentioned unit numbers or times. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2011 23:47:17 GMT
The A60s shouldn't be found doing more than 50mph, and remember that those GPS thingies could be wrong. We wouldn't want to land any driver in the brown stuff now would we My GPS wasn't wrong - I have 3 of them and to avoid getting the driver in trouble I haven't mentioned unit numbers or times. Mmm I posted a rant about GPS Thingies in another A Stock Speed related thread recently - I've got a trace from my GPS thingy from when I left it in it's charger. It bobbled about over a 200m radius, not staying still for more than 10-20s at a time. Or what about the other time when I had it switched on on a flight to guernsey, the ATR72 I was on slowed from 350 to 45mph over the english channel, then sped back up again without any apparent change of altitude or engine setting. Or what about the 73TS doing 90mph on the Uxbridge branch... All using different GPS enabled devices. (2 Sat Navs and my Phone, respectively) The simple fact is that it's not possible to obtain the level of accuracy needed to measure speed in a commercially available GPS device - the resolution allowed by the US government (who operate GPS) to comemrical GPS license holders simply isn't high enough for anything more than basic navigation / direction finding. Truth be told what I believe is actually happening, and I completely understand it and have been guilty of it in the past, is a lot of enthusiasts are upset to see the A Stock go, and in their desire to see it off in a good light are exaggerating what it is doing in it's final months of service. Train drivers are far too professional to exceed restrictions that are in place for their saftey and the safety of the 7 or 8 hundred passengers on their train. Show me some proper proof that an A Stock was doing 70mph (picture of a speedo reading, photographs time stampted against a known distance...) and I'll eat a printed out copy of this post. But as long GPS speed traces cannot be relied upon in a court of law I refuse to believe anyone posting such reports. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2011 6:56:27 GMT
My GPS wasn't wrong - I have 3 of them and to avoid getting the driver in trouble I haven't mentioned unit numbers or times. Mmm I posted a rant about GPS Thingies in another A Stock Speed related thread recently - I've got a trace from my GPS thingy from when I left it in it's charger. It bobbled about over a 200m radius, not staying still for more than 10-20s at a time. Or what about the other time when I had it switched on on a flight to guernsey, the ATR72 I was on slowed from 350 to 45mph over the english channel, then sped back up again without any apparent change of altitude or engine setting. Or what about the 73TS doing 90mph on the Uxbridge branch... All using different GPS enabled devices. (2 Sat Navs and my Phone, respectively) The simple fact is that it's not possible to obtain the level of accuracy needed to measure speed in a commercially available GPS device - the resolution allowed by the US government (who operate GPS) to comemrical GPS license holders simply isn't high enough for anything more than basic navigation / direction finding. Truth be told what I believe is actually happening, and I completely understand it and have been guilty of it in the past, is a lot of enthusiasts are upset to see the A Stock go, and in their desire to see it off in a good light are exaggerating what it is doing in it's final months of service. Train drivers are far too professional to exceed restrictions that are in place for their saftey and the safety of the 7 or 8 hundred passengers on their train. Show me some proper proof that an A Stock was doing 70mph (picture of a speedo reading, photographs time stampted against a known distance...) and I'll eat a printed out copy of this post. But as long GPS speed traces cannot be relied upon in a court of law I refuse to believe anyone posting such reports. No solid proof but anyone can see it's going a lot faster than 50mph. I hope your printer is working. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2011 8:27:38 GMT
The simple fact is that it's not possible to obtain the level of accuracy needed to measure speed in a commercially available GPS device I have a Garmin Nuvi in my car and it's extremely accurate when measuring speed. I've monitored it on many journeys, some exceeding 300 miles, and it doesn't deviate by more than a mile per hour from the speed indicated on the car instruments. Maybe it's an exception to the rule. |
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metman
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Post by metman on Jan 26, 2011 13:03:00 GMT
Mmm I posted a rant about GPS Thingies in another A Stock Speed related thread recently - I've got a trace from my GPS thingy from when I left it in it's charger. It bobbled about over a 200m radius, not staying still for more than 10-20s at a time. Or what about the other time when I had it switched on on a flight to guernsey, the ATR72 I was on slowed from 350 to 45mph over the english channel, then sped back up again without any apparent change of altitude or engine setting. Or what about the 73TS doing 90mph on the Uxbridge branch... All using different GPS enabled devices. (2 Sat Navs and my Phone, respectively) The simple fact is that it's not possible to obtain the level of accuracy needed to measure speed in a commercially available GPS device - the resolution allowed by the US government (who operate GPS) to comemrical GPS license holders simply isn't high enough for anything more than basic navigation / direction finding. Truth be told what I believe is actually happening, and I completely understand it and have been guilty of it in the past, is a lot of enthusiasts are upset to see the A Stock go, and in their desire to see it off in a good light are exaggerating what it is doing in it's final months of service. Train drivers are far too professional to exceed restrictions that are in place for their saftey and the safety of the 7 or 8 hundred passengers on their train. Show me some proper proof that an A Stock was doing 70mph (picture of a speedo reading, photographs time stampted against a known distance...) and I'll eat a printed out copy of this post. But as long GPS speed traces cannot be relied upon in a court of law I refuse to believe anyone posting such reports. No solid proof but anyone can see it's going a lot faster than 50mph. I hope your printer is working. That is going quickly, maybe not 70 but certainly more than 50. Having been in an A stock cab at 50, I'm sure that is faster. |
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Post by metrolander on Jan 26, 2011 17:47:00 GMT
The simple fact is that it's not possible to obtain the level of accuracy needed to measure speed in a commercially available GPS device I have a Garmin Nuvi in my car and it's extremely accurate when measuring speed. I've monitored it on many journeys, some exceeding 300 miles, and it doesn't deviate by more than a mile per hour from the speed indicated on the car instruments. Maybe it's an exception to the rule. I wouldn't suggest car instruments as a precision reference point - I've always read of car speedos being around +/- 5mph, sometimes more. Top end road testing certainly doesn't rely on the speedo when recording actual performance figures. Not sure but I think this may also have something to do with why there is a slight margin over the actual limit allowed before you get flashed by speed cameras. More to the point, I'd imagine that occasionally a driver or two goes a bit too quick, but I'm sure it's not common. Having travelled more frequently on the Met in slightly faster days of yore, I find it noticeably slower on the Harrow-Finchley section these days (with less associated trampoline action on the inside of course). Disappointing - whilst the Met was basically my only route into/out of town back then it always stood out to me as it seemed so fast! Not so anymore. What I don't get though is people moaning about 'EU, H&S blah blah' and all those tired old world's gone mad cliches when it comes to the A stock's speed. What has the EU got to do with the bogies breaking?! Surely the imposition of speed restrictions was engineering based (be it the fault of the train, or the track, doesn't matter) and not the result of maintenance cuts as has also been trotted out. As far as I gather from this forum, the maintenance cuts issues related to the stock have been in the very recent past, with replacement impending. The most readily apparent indication of this is that the trains are kept in a horrible looking state, which I must say is a bit rubbish. Impending replacement or not, I don't recall the corporate image-era LU ever running such shabby looking trains. It's like they've been made to look bad on purpose they look so scabby! I should like to see one returned to the original, venerable state. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2011 19:31:49 GMT
No solid proof but anyone can see it's going a lot faster than 50mph. I hope your printer is working. That is going quickly, maybe not 70 but certainly more than 50. Having been in an A stock cab at 50, I'm sure that is faster. The speedo read 68mph |
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Jan 26, 2011 20:35:01 GMT
I think that's enough of a debate about what A stocks are or are not doing in terms of speed. None of you are A stock drivers so that actually means you are not in a position to legally be in a train cab (train cabs are a safety critical environment and there are rules in place for a reason), nor are any of you in a position to be able to officially state the claims that have been made (ie, an LU employee) - in fact some of you are not even old enough to be employed by LU [assuming the age shown in your profiles is correct].
Furthermore, none of you are road trained on the Metropolitan line so what you think you may know about the line, including permitted line speeds and the capabilities of the rolling stocks, and what happens to be fact are likely to be two different things.
Contrary to what's been said in this thread, trains are driven to the supplied and fitted speed measuring device in the train cab, and in accordance with written instructions, signalling and signed speed limits. As per the rule book, train speeds are monitored using an approved and calibrated hand held speed gun of the type used by police officers. We do not rely on hand held GPS devices nor mobile phone apps.
As stated earlier in this thread, it will be locked soon. In fact I will be creating a new thread regarding S stock delivery and it's introduction to service as part of our tidying up of the Metropolitan and SSR areas of the forum later on tonight - you can have a bit of grace until then if you wish to post a response.....
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2011 21:02:38 GMT
People are allowed if they get permission earlier on
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2011 21:18:28 GMT
I wouldn't suggest car instruments as a precision reference point - I've always read of car speedos being around +/- 5mph, sometimes more. I know what you mean, but the indicated speed on the Garmin is the same as that on the car. In fact it's the same on my wife's car and another vehicle I use from time to time as well as my mate's car where I've also used it. This is what leads me to believe it's accurate. The chances of all four vehicles and the Garmin being wrong to the same margins are slim. I do suspect however that on a train with a powerful electrical field not far below your feet, or above your head for that matter, all sorts of discrepancies could be induced into the device. Has anyone tried the same experiment on a DMU with no overhead or live rail? |
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Jan 26, 2011 21:25:26 GMT
People are allowed if they get permission earlier on Whilst that is certainly true, official cab rides are extremely rare - knowing a 'mate' who's a driver and gaining verbal permission just prior to the event is not an official cab ride. Also, those who gain official cab rides via official means don't generally tend to boast about it - it's usually those with a driver 'mate' that do the boasting. Point is certain claims have been made in this thread and they should be held to account/kept in perspective. |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Jan 26, 2011 21:43:35 GMT
I wouldn't suggest car instruments as a precision reference point - I've always read of car speedos being around +/- 5mph, sometimes more. plus 5 mph yes, but not minus. Type approval requirements are that the indicated speed must never be less than the actual speed (i.e. it should not be possible to go faster than the indicated speedometer reading) and not more than 110 percent of the true speed plus 4 km/h Thus at a true 60kph the speedo must read somewhere between 60 and 70kph. |
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Post by citysig on Jan 26, 2011 23:07:28 GMT
Before the thread is locked / disappears, the next one will be arriving within the next 24 hours or so. Don't ask me which one - I've lost count.
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Post by metrolander on Jan 26, 2011 23:29:47 GMT
I wouldn't suggest car instruments as a precision reference point - I've always read of car speedos being around +/- 5mph, sometimes more. plus 5 mph yes, but not minus. Type approval requirements are that the indicated speed must never be less than the actual speed (i.e. it should not be possible to go faster than the indicated speedometer reading) and not more than 110 percent of the true speed plus 4 km/h Thus at a true 60kph the speedo must read somewhere between 60 and 70kph. Ah OK I am quite happy to be corrected on that; by no means knew the ins and outs I just knew speedos aren't generally bang on! Re the GPS though, yes, I would imagine that in a car (certainly in my experience even though I've never owned a sat nav) they are pretty damned close, was just making the point that this doesn't qualify them as any more or less useful for what was being discussed.... Which we agree on anyway... This really has got tangenty; night! ps certainly didn't mean to contribute to the more dimly viewed elements of this thread - I think my comments were fairly uncontroversial and quite clearly the observations of a passenger, nothing more! |
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metman
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Post by metman on Jan 26, 2011 23:32:38 GMT
It may be 21015 arriving?
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;D ;D
