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Post by billyboy on Sept 11, 2010 13:17:56 GMT
Hi,
Does anyone know when the S Stock is likely to begin testing or even start operating in service on the Amersham branch of the met line? I travel on that branch everyday and see the S Stock on the Watford branch.
Or will each new train be tested on the Wembley to Watford line?Speaking of which how often is a new train delivered?
(Quite a few questions, I know ;D)
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Sept 12, 2010 1:45:00 GMT
I can't really answer any of them properly, but there are currently a number of limiting factors which may help...
I can tell you that there is only One S stock in London at the moment that can carry passengers - there is a second S stock in London but it is a pre-production train fitted with testing equipment. There may be a third S stock in London now, or maybe not, but there certainly isn't any more than that AFAIK.
So the first limiting factor is a lack of S stocks.
Although carrying passengers is now possible if the right train is out, testing is still going on and not all routes have been cleared for S stock to run yet. So it all depends on what testing is required on a given day and which train is available or required.
Another limiting factor is driver training. AFAIK there is a large number of drivers that still need to be trained on S stock - probably still on the wrong side of 50%. One of the two trains in London, ideally the passenger carrying one I'd imagine, will be needed on some days of every week so that drivers hands on training on the real thing so that will also limit availability to carry out testing on the line.
Bottom line.......it's still very early days.
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SE13
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Post by SE13 on Sept 12, 2010 13:06:43 GMT
To add to Colin's post, the trains can only run where trials are successful, and the appropriate clearance is given, and that takes an enormous amount of time, and a lot of people to sign a lot of pieces of paperwork.
Type-training (not sure what it's called on LU) takes some serious time to organise, as stated, the train may or may not run on the bits it's allowed to, and then even if you can drive it, how do you know what it's going to do on inclines or bends further down the line on sections you aren't trained for.
Early days is really about the best way to put it. Frustrating for those that want to see it, travel on it, or want it in full service, but red tape can't be cut, and there is no way anyone is taking the chance of getting any part of it wrong.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2010 15:45:58 GMT
I am sure i have seen more then 3 s stocks in the yard as for training i believe we will be the last at Ricky mine is in February and have not even been in a s stock yet lol
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Post by setttt on Sept 12, 2010 16:53:27 GMT
There are still only 3 trains in London, 1 of which can carry passengers. I think there is an intention to get quite a few more Ricky drivers trained up to redress the balance. Certainly heard a few of your counterparts mentioning they've got their training in the very near future. Though at this rate I can't see it making much difference, as there has been no mention to those of us already trained of when we're likely to drive one again, nor have we been issued keys.
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Post by ruislip on Sept 12, 2010 17:50:03 GMT
Aren't they testing the new stock on the Uxbridge branch this weekend, since there's no Piccadilly service west of South Harrow and no Mets are running to Uxbridge?
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Sept 13, 2010 0:12:03 GMT
Aren't they testing the new stock on the Uxbridge branch this weekend, since there's no Piccadilly service west of South Harrow and no Mets are running to Uxbridge? It could be that they are just upgrading something (perhaps track, signalling or power?) or doing other enabling work so that the systems on the branch can cope with the S stock's requirements. |
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Post by citysig on Sept 13, 2010 8:13:48 GMT
Aren't they testing the new stock on the Uxbridge branch this weekend, since there's no Piccadilly service west of South Harrow and no Mets are running to Uxbridge? No. The S-stock (all of them) were tucked safely away in Neasden depot for the weekend. The closure was for various works to be carried out on the Uxbridge branch. |
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Post by deadmans on Sept 14, 2010 18:17:01 GMT
Another one due down at the end of the month, by which time hopefully the Depot will get back some of its closed roads. It needs them badly..
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2010 10:07:02 GMT
So what's it doing now? Is it still doing its three Watford-Wembley Park runs per day?
Does anyone else get a Bigfoot vibe with this thing?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2010 13:13:03 GMT
A couple of nuggets of info:
Some signal sighting work is still required north of Wembley Park. It is hoped that by the end of September, all signals between Wembley Park and Amersham/Chesham/Watford will have been sighted.
OPO equipment still needs to be sorted at several locations, should be sorted north of Baker Street first, south of Baker Street later.
The target is to have the whole line available for S stock by 31 March 2011
Trips in service (Wembley Park/Harrow-on-the-Hill to Watford) are usually on Thursdays and Fridays.
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metman
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Post by metman on Sept 15, 2010 22:58:17 GMT
No full S stock service until March 2011?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2010 6:50:29 GMT
So when for North of Baker Street? That's when we can say the S stock is operating a proper service.
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metman
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Post by metman on Sept 16, 2010 6:56:49 GMT
Surely the run into the city is built into the main Mon-Fri service and if S stock isn't cleared for it, they can only run in drips and drabs from Watford/Amesham - Baker Street at the weekend.
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Post by citysig on Sept 16, 2010 9:12:25 GMT
Surely the run into the city is built into the main Mon-Fri service and if S stock isn't cleared for it, they can only run in drips and drabs from Watford/Amesham - Baker Street at the weekend. Indeed at the moment most trains have a mixture of Baker Street and Aldgate services. However, tucked away in the timetable are test paths for the S-stock, which would allow them to run a Watford-Wembley "service" at present. They are not generally used in that way, and instead we have a separate timetable notice of test runs (which are run on certain days as required.) If a service was able to run as far south as Baker Street by, say, the end of the year, then I am sure the new working timetable (due for December) will also have some "service paths" for the S-stock to run on. So much as the S-stock may be in service, it will be run as an "add-on" to the service rather than as an integral part of it. |
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Post by superteacher on Sept 16, 2010 20:30:17 GMT
If the full introduction to service is delayed for as long as is being mentioned, there will be a lot of S stock sitting around not doing much. I'm assuming the deliveries won't be held up.
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metman
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Post by metman on Sept 16, 2010 21:04:05 GMT
They could be? Perhaps Bombardier can turn its attention to some of their other projects?
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prjb
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Post by prjb on Sept 16, 2010 21:47:09 GMT
Hi, Does anyone know when the S Stock is likely to begin testing or even start operating in service on the Amersham branch of the met line? I travel on that branch everyday and see the S Stock on the Watford branch. Or will each new train be tested on the Wembley to Watford line?Speaking of which how often is a new train delivered? (Quite a few questions, I know ;D) We have been testing on the Amersham branch for quite some time, but only during engineering hours or during weekend closures. We have also been to Chesham too (if only once thus far!). We are not far off being able to run to Amersham during the day but have a couple more pieces of the 'integration testing' jigsaw to put together first. |
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Post by prjb on Sept 16, 2010 21:53:28 GMT
To add to Colin's post, the trains can only run where trials are successful, and the appropriate clearance is given, and that takes an enormous amount of time, and a lot of people to sign a lot of pieces of paperwork. It is more about ensuring that all the relevant infrastructure is in place, so things like Correct Side Door Enabling (CSDE) and CCTV equipment. Type-training (not sure what it's called on LU) takes some serious time to organise, as stated, the train may or may not run on the bits it's allowed to, and then even if you can drive it, how do you know what it's going to do on inclines or bends further down the line on sections you aren't trained for. Drivers are trained on the Watford branch presently but this is for practical train handling and nothing to do with the geography (bends/inclines etc) of the line. Early days is really about the best way to put it. Frustrating for those that want to see it, travel on it, or want it in full service, but red tape can't be cut, and there is no way anyone is taking the chance of getting any part of it wrong. There actually isn't that much paperwork, it is mainly ensuring that everything is in place (OPO etc). The main thing we are going through at the moment is signal sighting activities, where the Signal Sighting Committees work with us to ensure all the signals are visible from the 'S' Stock cab. |
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prjb
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Post by prjb on Sept 16, 2010 21:56:31 GMT
There are still only 3 trains in London, 1 of which can carry passengers. I think there is an intention to get quite a few more Ricky drivers trained up to redress the balance. Certainly heard a few of your counterparts mentioning they've got their training in the very near future. Though at this rate I can't see it making much difference, as there has been no mention to those of us already trained of when we're likely to drive one again, nor have we been issued keys. That is quite right, there are two pre-production trains (which cannot carry passengers) and one production train (which is carrying passengers). A full service is a little way off yet so there is no need to issue keys yet. We have had a bit of a delay in getting the keys, and have had to remove them from the pre-production train emergency equipment cabinets as they were getting nicked!  |
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prjb
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Post by prjb on Sept 16, 2010 22:02:38 GMT
A couple of nuggets of info: Some signal sighting work is still required north of Wembley Park. It is hoped that by the end of September, all signals between Wembley Park and Amersham/Chesham/Watford will have been sighted. This won't be completed until early October. The main area we need to get sorted is Wembley Park itself and this will happen in late September. OPO equipment still needs to be sorted at several locations, should be sorted north of Baker Street first, south of Baker Street later. Almost everywhere north of Baker Street is completed with a couple of outstanding sites on the Uxbridge Branch. We also have some 'tweeking' to do too. The target is to have the whole line available for S stock by 31 March 2011 Thats the project milestone. Trips in service (Wembley Park/Harrow-on-the-Hill to Watford) are usually on Thursdays and Fridays. Occasionally on other days too, but don't hang your hats on that! |
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prjb
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Post by prjb on Sept 16, 2010 22:05:00 GMT
Surely the run into the city is built into the main Mon-Fri service and if S stock isn't cleared for it, they can only run in drips and drabs from Watford/Amesham - Baker Street at the weekend. Indeed at the moment most trains have a mixture of Baker Street and Aldgate services. However, tucked away in the timetable are test paths for the S-stock, which would allow them to run a Watford-Wembley "service" at present. They are not generally used in that way, and instead we have a separate timetable notice of test runs (which are run on certain days as required.) If a service was able to run as far south as Baker Street by, say, the end of the year, then I am sure the new working timetable (due for December) will also have some "service paths" for the S-stock to run on. So much as the S-stock may be in service, it will be run as an "add-on" to the service rather than as an integral part of it. The December timetable will have paths that are 'S' Stock friendly!! |
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Post by prjb on Sept 16, 2010 22:06:55 GMT
If the full introduction to service is delayed for as long as is being mentioned, there will be a lot of S stock sitting around not doing much. I'm assuming the deliveries won't be held up. This isn't a delay, there is a program that we work to and dates being qouted here (March 2011) are consistent with our program. |
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Sept 17, 2010 8:04:34 GMT
How many S stock trains are you planning/expecting to have available in London by March?
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Post by citysig on Sept 17, 2010 10:04:14 GMT
The December timetable will have paths that are 'S' Stock friendly!! Surely you actually mean it will have paths that are A-stock / rest of the service friendly. In other words they will be there to be used, but won't impose on the service running around them. |
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prjb
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Post by prjb on Sept 17, 2010 19:04:33 GMT
The December timetable will have paths that are 'S' Stock friendly!! Surely you actually mean it will have paths that are A-stock / rest of the service friendly. In other words they will be there to be used, but won't impose on the service running around them. What I mean is that there are normal paths in the timetable that accomodate our needs, but yes the paths can and will be used by 'A' Stock for the short time they have left. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2010 23:16:29 GMT
Surely you actually mean it will have paths that are A-stock / rest of the service friendly. In other words they will be there to be used, but won't impose on the service running around them. What I mean is that there are normal paths in the timetable that accomodate our needs, but yes the paths can and will be used by 'A' Stock for the short time they have left. That's all rather dependant on whether Uxbridge get's sorted out over the coming months !!! |
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prjb
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Post by prjb on Sept 19, 2010 16:25:33 GMT
What I mean is that there are normal paths in the timetable that accomodate our needs, but yes the paths can and will be used by 'A' Stock for the short time they have left. That's all rather dependant on whether Uxbridge get's sorted out over the coming months !!! Do you mean the issues with the station or the issues with the sidings? I suspect you mean the latter, but either way it is my job to sort them both out!  In any case, I am confident that we will resolve our issues at Uxbridge. This weekend has seen a large amount of work in the sidings. |
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Post by superteacher on Sept 19, 2010 21:06:03 GMT
If the full introduction to service is delayed for as long as is being mentioned, there will be a lot of S stock sitting around not doing much. I'm assuming the deliveries won't be held up. This isn't a delay, there is a program that we work to and dates being qouted here (March 2011) are consistent with our program. It just seems a long time after their launch (July 2010) before full service running is due to begin (March 2011). When are they due to completely replace A stock on all workings? |
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Post by deadmans on Sept 20, 2010 18:21:11 GMT
This isn't a delay, there is a program that we work to and dates being qouted here (March 2011) . When are they due to completely replace A stock on all workings? At the current rate, until summer 2012, NO MATTER WHAT THE S STOCK CLIQUE say on here. It would also help if LUL had a depot ready, to under take a full service and maintenance program on them. You can build as many as you want, but if you cannot stable them on the line, or maintain them.... A small but rather important POINT. ;D |
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