When will the Northern line go ATO?

[ducatisti]

apologies for double-posting.
Also, it makes a lot more sense to do the Mill Hill twig first as even if that falls right over, it shouldn't affect the network too badly. Get that to 95% reliability and then try it elsewhere.

[Deleted]

On that measure I'd be interested to see if the jubilee upgrade has actually upgraded at all.

I used it the other day and it seems 10 times slower than it was before So nahh not impressed.

[Deleted]

May 16, 2011 10:29:41 GMT @ad1992 said:

On that measure I'd be interested to see if the jubilee upgrade has actually upgraded at all.

I used it the other day and it seems 10 times slower than it was before So nahh not impressed.

You'll have to wait until the new WTT to judge it... don't see why they couldn't have changed running times at the south end of the line though.

Give it a try when things are running late... I used it back in December on the 11th, test day and it was absolute hellfire thrash.

[mrfs42]

May 16, 2011 15:28:15 GMT @cj said:

don't see why they couldn't have changed running times at the south end of the line though.

Because of the sheer amount of time involved, I suspect. GIven too that everywhere has to tighten their belts a bit - it doesn't make economic sense to run a 10A WTT these days before 11. If we were not is such straitened times, then things might be different.

[jardine01]

I was on the Northern line the other day it was pritty fast aswell don't know if the train was late or not really it felt like ATO! When the Northern line goes ATO this will make a big difference!

[Deleted]

Although some of the 'generic' LU related software issues may be been resolved on the Jubilee, the Northern will have just as many line specific issue - different trains, different track layout, more computers to interact. I don't know of any TBTC installation onto an existing railway that has gone to plan yet, and I doubt the Northern will be any different.

[causton]

How different will the 95 and 96 stock trains be in regards to setting them up for ATO?

[Deleted]

Give it a try when things are running late... I used it back in December on the 11th, test day and it was absolute hellfire thrash.

Riight , I remember once upon a time being able to actually get a train every few mins. hah! Still thank goodness we have tfl's brilliant new system that now has a train every 7 mins! How is this an improvement?!

[Deleted]

May 16, 2011 15:56:17 GMT @jardine01 said:

I was on the Northern line the other day it was pritty fast aswell don't know if the train was late or not really it felt like ATO! When the Northern line goes ATO this will make a big difference!

No the Northern isn't in Ato, and besides the 1995 stock trains are capable of speed on the right gradients. They have been for ages! It's just that not all drivers do more than 35mph.

[Deleted]

May 17, 2011 8:53:03 GMT @ad1992 said:

Give it a try when things are running late... I used it back in December on the 11th, test day and it was absolute hellfire thrash.

Riight , I remember once upon a time being able to actually get a train every few mins. hah! Still thank goodness we have tfl's brilliant new system that now has a train every 7 mins! How is this an improvement?!

Every 7? You're having a laugh.

I've never seen that long a wait on the DMIs, between several trains; maybe until the next (PEA probably!) but the trains came thick and fast after that.

Even on weekends where they are reversing West Hampstead they are more frequent than that!

[Deleted]

Well it was 7 mins for me.

[Deleted]

5 mins at Finchley Road this morning, but that was with minor delays: 2 mins is usually the most I would expect. Same for Canary Wharf on the way back: 2 mins is usual in the evening peak.

[Chris M]

When I travel on the Jubilee from Canning Town, usually in the afternoon or evening, displayed intervals range from 1 minute to 10 minutes. Typical actual waiting time can vary more than that.

My next challenge is to travel on a service that doesn't wait for time at West Ham (on one occasion we waited 5 minutes) and doesn't arrive at Stratford before there is a platform for it.

[Deleted]

Moving back toward the subject of the Northern line upgrade...

Is there a significant difference between the operating systems of the 95 and 96 stock? The the facades look fairly similar.

I would have imagined that the Northern line upgrade will be more complex as it has more branches, but simpler as the line is on segregated tracks so unlike the Jub does not have a shared depot or routes over which two signalling systems operate (Met and Jub).

[Deleted]

95 vs 96: The train interfaces have been designed and installed so that the TBTC equipment fitted is identical for both stocks

Complexity: cityboy is spot on; NL has a more complex layout, but it benefits from having no tracks shared with other lines (obviously noting Picc connection at KX).

[mrfs42]

May 17, 2011 18:35:01 GMT ta said:

(obviously noting Picc connection at KX).

Presumably the vertical separation and the curvature makes the two lines effectively isolated; hmm? Or has spike inductance via the tunnel segments reared an unnecessarily ugly head?

[Deleted]

TBTC will be installed in the Kings X loop connecting the two lines from what I remember to allow Engineers trains to transfer in and out of TBTC modes.

[Deleted]

TBTC programed to go live March 2014, with a fall back off December 2014, but dont hold your breath.

[Deleted]

How does TBTC's version of Coded Manual work?

[Deleted]

As I understand it a target speed is given, and a distance to go until train ahead and/or lower speed restriction. I have no idea on the exact details but that's the general idea.

[Deleted]

Yeah but how will the driver know when to increase his speed or stop?

[Deleted]

The target speed would go up!

I'd imagine the DTG reading would be constant. That and of course the chimes like on the Central's ATP so the display doesn't need to be looked at constantly.

[Deleted]

I know the target speed would go up...

So your saying that Battery locos, the TRT etc all have screens inside that display all this?

[Deleted]

They're going to have to if they want to run them outside of engineering hours!

Also, I'd imagine the AIT would get it, not the TRT.

[Deleted]

The TRT must do, their not just to leave the Jubilee line unchecked or whatever are they?

[Deleted]

The AIT is supposed to be a replacement for the TRT...

[Deleted]

Yeah but its not out in use everyday like the TRT is yet

[Bighat]

Jun 11, 2011 21:12:19 GMT @cj said:

The AIT is supposed to be a replacement for the TRT...

When I spoke to some of the 'I'm breaking the rules with a naughty word' drivers when the 92ts were being brake tested, their opinion was that there were still a number of unresolved 'issues' to be dealt with before it would enter service, including for some signal-related reason, the need for it to be lenthened to at least a six car train!

[br7mt]

A number of Battery Locos, all the Schomas and some of the Tampers have been fitted with TBTC and all are in the process of being commissioned and tested. Some issues to resolve around entering Engineers Trains onto the TBTC system and around signal strength on the BLs. Now that the passenger stock element of TBTC is working the effort can now focus on the TransPlant fleet.

The 6-car AIT will get TBTC eventually, indeed as I am on the AIT Project I have been involved thus far on the TBTC integration design! The reason we are adding two more cars is not explicitly to do with the signalling system, but is a factor in the decision.

The TRT will not get fitted with TBTC and will operate in cancelled enginering hours as it does currently on the Jubilee (and Victoria Line).

Regards,

Dan

[Ben]

So it is going to 6 cars then? How interesting. What are the other reasons for lengthening the formation; is more equipment being fitted or something?