can the Jubilee line drive manual on sundays?

[Chris M]

So how did the DLR PSA manage to get left behind by their train at West India Quay (iirc) that time?

[Deleted]

May 19, 2011 19:23:58 GMT superteacher said:

May 19, 2011 15:41:49 GMT @jardine01 said:

What i cant really understand is the Central line is ATO and the drivers seem to drive in Coded Manual more than the Jubilee line does, I wonder if trains on the Jubilee line can be in ATO if the cab door is open? I know on the Central line it is Coded manual if the cab door is open.

I think it's a requirement for the door to be closed before ATO can be used to start a train. That's why the 1967 stock was built without side cab doors.

it is that, but it didn't stop one Motorman in the early days of the Vic from opening the M door, climbing down to use a signal phone, only for the train to go, leaving him in the tunnel.... Hence the interlocks these days....

[superteacher]

May 19, 2011 20:18:38 GMT @tubeoperator92 said:

May 19, 2011 19:23:58 GMT superteacher said:

I think it's a requirement for the door to be closed before ATO can be used to start a train. That's why the 1967 stock was built without side cab doors.

it is that, but it didn't stop one Motorman in the early days of the Vic from opening the M door, climbing down to use a signal phone, only for the train to go, leaving him in the tunnel.... Hence the interlocks these days....

Yes I've heard that one too. He survived the experience too.

[Ben]

What happened to the chap afterwards, aside from his nerves taking a serious bash!

[Deleted]

May 20, 2011 9:15:29 GMT Ben said:

What happened to the chap afterwards, aside from his nerves taking a serious bash!

Heard he climbed on the next train (it stopped at the same signal), which then proceeded at low speed up to the next train that was stuck in the platform as there was no one to start it agan!

[tubeprune]

It was the NB home at Seven Sisters.

[Deleted]

I seem to remember a Piccadilly line train running without a driver from King's Cross to halfway between Caledonian Road and Holloway Road.

[Deleted]

May 20, 2011 13:10:24 GMT @zoe said:

I seem to remember a Piccadilly line train running without a driver from King's Cross to halfway between Caledonian Road and Holloway Road.

Unless the deadmans was isolated, I don't see how that is possible.

[Chris M]

There's a bit about the Piccadilly Line incident on pages 2 and 3 of this ancient thread

[Deleted]

Jubilee ATO definitely requires drivers door to be shut to motor. Not sure about PM mode?

Coded manual more common on Central because the ATO is a black box of its own, and the ATP (safety bit) is a seperate black box, so you can get a failure of ATO but the ATP bit is still fine to drive manually with.

TBTC is in effect a single combined ATP/ATO box, and the nature of the beast is most failures are ATP related not ATO - that bit is a small proportion of the black box that rarely goes wrong as I understand it.

[Deleted]

Ive seen from videos that the Vic line tunnels have thin wooden plank walkways along the sides of the tunnels?

[Ben]

It was theorised that they would help cut down noise in the tunnels. Slightly prefferential to asbestos cladding!!

[jardine01]

Now its full line ATO can drivers go into PM on Sundays if they wish to now?

[br7mt]

I think the general rule is ATO only.

Regards,

Dan

[jardine01]

I think ATO on the Jubilee line is a good Idea but I think drivers should be able to go into PM Mode if they wish. The Central line driving Manually is much more common than PM on the Jubilee line. I thought PM would of been standard on Sundays to keep in practise?

[Deleted]

I think the role of the train operator on the Jubilee / Victoria lines is closer to the role of CSA on the DLR.

[br7mt]

I think the general consensus is that it is better to stay in auto mode because it provides a more consistent level of service performance.

Regards,

Dan

[radbod]

Jul 10, 2011 21:00:43 GMT @notatraindriver said:

I think the role of the train operator on the Jubilee / Victoria lines is closer to the role of CSA on the DLR.

Apart from the fact that a T/Op gets to hide at the front of the train all the time, doesn't have to answer questions from passengers in the middle of doing their job, check tickets, issue Penalty Fares, get threatened, get assaulted or get asked 'Is that all you do, close the doors?'

Oh, and PSAs get paid around 10k less.

[jardine01]

Jubilee line ATO is not like the central line or Victoria line. Some trains crawl into platforms like at West Hamstead it came in really slowly Prehaps it was in Protected Manual mode? I Hope when the new timetable comes speed will increase. Speeds on the Jubilee line Extension are fast especally between Canada water and Canary wharf. The drivers must be sick letting the train do the work, when the time comes to actually drive the train their skills will be poor

[Deleted]

Drivers are getting plenty of practice driving in PM with daily track walks going on, so no need for PM driving on Sunday. Trains go into PM mode with people on the track.

[jardine01]

I would of thought on Sunday Mornings they would of used PM mode between Stanmore and Wembly Park? If the role of train operator is going to be like A PSA on the DLR why don't they just make the Cabs like the DLR witch the PSA control pannel and Front seats for the passangers?

[br7mt]

There is no point because it is highly likely that at some point during each month the Train Operator will have to drive in PM mode when there are workers trackside. The Operators loved it when ATO was introduced, but I think they are getting a little bored now with not driving, although the teething problems with the system mean they do get to drive every so often.

It would cost inordinate amounts of money to convert the cabs because there is a lot of equipment (including the VOBC and power supply) in the cab back wall.

Regards,

Dan

[jardine01]

Just A suggestion but i think there should be ATO in the tunnels and Manual overground on the Jubilee line does anybody else agree?

[Deleted]

Jul 17, 2011 18:05:35 GMT @jardine01 said:

Just A suggestion but i think there should be ATO in the tunnels and Manual overground on the Jubilee line does anybody else agree?

Not that this is really on-topic, but I strongly disagree with you. You will get a better service running ATO above ground if you're doing it in the tunnels, otherwise you're impeding capacity. It isn't an NR service at like 10tph on a good stretch, we're talking over 30tph when complete hopefully.

[jardine01]

with typical British weather I would imagine PM will be used in heavy train like the Central? With the fast station approaches trains might not be able to stop properly in the wet.

[Colin]

Admin Comment:

If you wish to propose ideas, please do so in the proper area - that being the Railway Ideas, Proposals and Suggestions area.

[Deleted]

Does Protected Manual mode also control your speed down to a stop for stations?

[br7mt]

In PM mode the Operator drives the train according to the instructions on the TOD (Train Operators Display). For station stops it will tell the Operator where the stop point is for every station and the target speed will decrease as that stop point approaches. The Operator must control the speed according to those indications on the TOD. If the target point is exceeded or the speed indicates that it will be exceeded then the emergency brake automatically applies.

When it is wet we have a system for reducing the brake rate appropriately, which is applied by the Control Centre staff at Neasden.

Regards,

Dan

[jardine01]

Has anybody been on an PM Jubilee line train before?

[Deleted]

I have, in the testing days.. hellfire.