when will the northern end of the line be finished

[tubeprune]

Interesting that, in TfL's world, "spring" lasts beyond the real world's summer solstice. These areas of Jubilee Line closures may seem strange but I think they are to do with the VCC area coverage. Where you see a closure from Waterloo northwards, they are probably testing the interfaces between VCC3 and VCC4 to see if they'll talk to each other, for the shorter closures it must be just VCC4 testing. In any event, it must be a nightmare trying to get the original LU signalling used on the Met to talk to the Thales S40 to talk to the Neasden depot signalling. Then they will have the Bombardier system to add to all that. No wonder they're short of signalling engineers. BTW, did they ever finish the Neasden depot resignalling?

[Deleted]

Don't think Neasden depot signalling is finished. Saw several signals bagged when I passed by yesterday, and I assume they are the new ones?

[Deleted]

Apr 28, 2011 15:37:01 GMT tubeprune said:

These areas of Jubilee Line closures may seem strange but I think they are to do with the VCC area coverage. Where you see a closure from Waterloo northwards, they are probably testing the interfaces between VCC3 and VCC4 to see if they'll talk to each other, for the shorter closures it must be just VCC4 testing. In any event, it must be a nightmare trying to get the original LU signalling used on the Met to talk to the Thales S40 to talk to the Neasden depot signalling. Then they will have the Bombardier system to add to all that. No wonder they're short of signalling engineers. BTW, did they ever finish the Neasden depot resignalling?

On 21/22 May part of the closure is for track work - the TBTC part is only north of West Hampstead. On 29 May it is to allow a higher frequency of trains during "trial operations" by reversing at Charing Cross rather than Willesden Green.

Neasden depot signalling is being commissioned during the "Summer".

[DWS]

May 2, 2011 7:32:38 GMT @tridentalx said:

Apr 28, 2011 15:37:01 GMT tubeprune said:

These areas of Jubilee Line closures may seem strange but I think they are to do with the VCC area coverage. Where you see a closure from Waterloo northwards, they are probably testing the interfaces between VCC3 and VCC4 to see if they'll talk to each other, for the shorter closures it must be just VCC4 testing. In any event, it must be a nightmare trying to get the original LU signalling used on the Met to talk to the Thales S40 to talk to the Neasden depot signalling. Then they will have the Bombardier system to add to all that. No wonder they're short of signalling engineers. BTW, did they ever finish the Neasden depot resignalling?

On 21/22 May part of the closure is for track work - the TBTC part is only north of West Hampstead. On 29 May it is to allow a higher frequency of trains during "trial operations" by reversing at Charing Cross rather than Willesden Green.

Neasden depot signalling is being commissioned during the "Summer".

Summer 2011 or 2012 ?

[Deleted]

May 2, 2011 8:29:24 GMT DWS said:

May 2, 2011 7:32:38 GMT @tridentalx said:

On 21/22 May part of the closure is for track work - the TBTC part is only north of West Hampstead. On 29 May it is to allow a higher frequency of trains during "trial operations" by reversing at Charing Cross rather than Willesden Green.

Neasden depot signalling is being commissioned during the "Summer".

Summer 2011 or 2012 ?

(Late) Summer 2011 is the information I have.

[version3point1]

In a bulletin I read today, we're allegedly in the 'final push' stages. (Not counting the push-outs for the stalled trains we've been getting over the last few weeks...)

Apparently, week ending 30 April saw tidal flow average of 101.3%, meaning we delivered more trains than timetabled. Our customers are experiencing quicker journey times with the average journey being 26 seconds faster than with the old system. Big wow. A whole 26 seconds. Then they've said that on average, passengers are waiting 3 seconds longer for a train.

Anyway, some upcoming closures, which could change:

15 May - West Hampstead to Stanmore: System testing

21 - 22 May - Waterloo to Stanmore: LU Trial Ops at low frequency (4tph) between Willesden Green (possibly Finchley Road on one day) and Stanmore, focusing on ensuring new software build for Neasden depot entry and exit has been successful.

29 May - Waterloo to Stanmore: LU Trial Operations between Charing Cross and Stanmore to prove a higher frequency operation (15tph) and continue to demonstrate reliable entry and exit at Neasden.

5 June - West Hampstead to Stanmore: LU Trial Ops

11 June - West Hampstead to Stanmore: LU Trial Ops

25 - 26 June - West Hampstead to Stanmore: LU Trial Ops

[Dstock7080]

WTT11 due to be introduced 31 July:

"All Week:
Running time has been revised to reflect operation with the new TBTC signal control system.
Platform 3 commissioned at Stanmore and is utilised throughout the week.
After 22.00 the service increased to 18tph central area service which comprises 15tph Stanmore - Stratford and 3tph Willesden Green - Stratford.

Mondays to Fridays:
An additional six trains available for use in the peak periods.
Both the a.m. and p.m. peak periods increased to a 27 trains per hour (tph) central area service in both directions. 18tph will operate to/from Stanmore, 4.5tph will reverse at Wembley Park and 4.5tph will reverse at Willesden Green. 24tph will operate to/from Stratford with 3tph reversing at North Greenwich.
During both peak periods stepping back will take place via all three platforms at Stratford.
Interpeak services (10.00 - 16.00) increased to 18tph central area service, which comprises 12tph Stanmore - Stratford, 6tph Wembley Park - Stratford.

Saturdays and Sundays:
Before 12.00 the service increased to 18tph central area service, which comprises 12tph Stanmore - Stratford and 6tph Wembley Park - Stratford."

[Ben]

27tph peak? Well that totally unimpressive. Is that all thats going to be delivered?

[DWS]

May 7, 2011 17:39:54 GMT Ben said:

27tph peak? Well that totally unimpressive. Is that all thats going to be delivered?

Well its a start ;D ;D ;D

[Ben]

Hopefully it isn't the end aswell

[Chris M]

May 7, 2011 16:38:03 GMT Dstock7080 said:

During both peak periods stepping back will take place via all three platforms at Stratford.

That sounds like it could get very confusing very quickly for t/ops in times of disruption.

[edwin]

27tph is woeful, especially considering the Paris and Moscow Metro are running 36-38tph with older signalling as we speak.

[DWS]

May 7, 2011 20:47:42 GMT Chris M said:

May 7, 2011 16:38:03 GMT Dstock7080 said:

During both peak periods stepping back will take place via all three platforms at Stratford.

That sounds like it could get very confusing very quickly for t/ops in times of disruption.

Thats for the Duty Train Staff Managers (DTSM) to sort out.

[jardine01]

It will increase to 33 trains per hour eventually

[Deleted]

All I can say is that in early 2005 there were 24 trains every hour (the same as now I think), and there is this press release from TfL at the time describing this, still on their website

www.tfl.gov.uk/static/corporate/media/newscentre/archive/3808.html

saying that there were four new trains coming along then so the number of trains every hour would go up, presumably to around 27, by December 2005.

Seven years of huge disruption and expense later, and having installed the wonders of high technology (when it works), what are we now achieving? Increasing the number of trains from 24 to 27 every hour, it would appear.

Still only 24 every hour from Canning Town and Stratford by the way.

[Deleted]

May 8, 2011 9:03:48 GMT @diana said:

All I can say is that in early 2005 there were 24 trains every hour (the same as now I think), and there is this press release from TfL at the time describing this, still on their website

www.tfl.gov.uk/static/corporate/media/newscentre/archive/3808.html

saying that there were four new trains coming along then so the number of trains every hour would go up, presumably to around 27, by December 2005.

Seven years of huge disruption and expense later, and having installed the wonders of high technology (when it works), what are we now achieving? Increasing the number of trains from 24 to 27 every hour, it would appear.

Still only 24 every hour from Canning Town and Stratford by the way.

The upgrade also included increasing the length of each train by one car and, as well as the increase in trains per hour the journey time end to end is being decreased by about 6% (so about 6 minutes). Early next year (probably March) there will be a further increase in tph and a further reduction in end to end journey time. I would suggest taking a staged approach to increasing capacity is a sensible strategy but overall the real increase by next March compared to the start of the upgrade is significant.

The current 24tph is a "tidal flow" type arrangement to top up the service to Canary Wharf in the AM peak and from there in the PM. The underlying tph is 21. Stratford does not currently get 24tph so there is an increase there too from 21 to 24 initially.

[venice]

What does a 33% increase in capacity mean?
The Jubilee line is designed to take 27tph, it currently runs at 24tph(peak)

from the link Diana provided (2005)
"Tube Lines is due to deliver a full line upgrade of the Jubilee line in 2009, increasing its capacity by 45 per cent"

a 45% increase
Or from 24tph six car train (144 car) -> 30 tph (210 car)


But from TFL's Our Tube upgrade plan (feb 2011)

"The Jubilee line has seen the most dramatic demand growth ...
by the addition of a seventh car to all trains at the beginning of 2006 which boosted capacity by 17%. The current upgrade involves the installation of a new signalling system, ...
In total the upgrade will provide 33% more capacity, ..."


A third increase including an additional seventh car?
so a 33% increase from 24tph six car train (144 car) -> 27 + half tph (192 car) seven car

OR a 33% increase since the additional seventh car
24tph + 33%(8 trains) -> 32tph
or maybe 27tph(desiged) -> 36tph

[A60stock]

when the whole line is complete, will the trains accelerate faster?

[Dstock7080]

At the monthly LURS Meeting last night, the 'JNUP' Manager gave away a few snippets:
- '96 Stock stopping tolerances were now 99.9% within 10cm.
- trains stop 80m apart in ATO.
- 30tph will come in after WTT11 has settled in and probably after the Olympics, so possibly Sept2012 for WTT12.

[Deleted]

WTT12 will be introduced before the Olympics. I'm sure that's what the presentation would/should have said.

[Deleted]

I've counted atleast 6 different 96 stock going in and out of the 3rd platform at Stanmore this morning, and all seemed to be in ATO and looked to be running OK. Evidence of progress up there at last?

[jardine01]

Are you sure trains in ATO up stanmore end i thought ATO is not supposed to be in operation until June? I went on a train up there a few days ago it seemed like it was in manual to me.

[jardine01]

sachil
In TBTC mode i belive trains run on full power now. When full line ATO comes in things should really pick up pace.

[mcmaddog]

May 21, 2011 20:25:16 GMT @jardine01 said:

Are you sure trains in ATO up stanmore end i thought ATO is not supposed to be in operation until June? I went on a train up there a few days ago it seemed like it was in manual to me.

Top end closed for testing today

[Deleted]

May 21, 2011 18:39:04 GMT @sw206 said:

I've counted atleast 6 different 96 stock going in and out of the 3rd platform at Stanmore this morning, and all seemed to be in ATO and looked to be running OK. Evidence of progress up there at last?

Yes, running trial operations between Finchley Road and Stanmore. In ATO throughout. Also running in and out of Neasden depot using TBTC. Same again tomorrow.