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Post by Deep Level on May 8, 2011 16:07:34 GMT
How come the original part of the Jubilee Line, more specifically Swiss Cottage - Green Park didn't have the stations upgraded to look similar to the extension when it was in production? I thought they could have at least put up some PEDs.
Was this ever considered?
If so, why wasn't it done?
Is there any plans for this in the future?
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Post by br7mt on May 8, 2011 16:45:13 GMT
PEDs were installed on the JLE because the designers were worried that the air pulses generated with a full ATO railway would be sufficient to blow people over on station platforms as the train came in. The older section of the line does not have such high speed limits therefore less of a problem.
Also the older stations would require platform strengthening to accommodate PEDs and it would reduce the width of those platforms.
Regards,
Dan
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2011 16:53:30 GMT
I think it's a good thing they didn't do up the older stations. Swiss Cottage and St. John's Wood are quite nice examples of New Works stations, and there's nothing at all wrong with the 70s original Jubilee designs!
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Post by Deep Level on May 8, 2011 17:35:40 GMT
I think it's a good thing they didn't do up the older stations. Swiss Cottage and St. John's Wood are quite nice examples of New Works stations, and there's nothing at all wrong with the 70s original Jubilee designs! A matter of opinion  |
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2011 19:03:26 GMT
Why didnt they? well its illogical really. Firstly LUL had and still does have a commitment to its heratige, SWC, STJW, BAS, BOS and GPK are all examples of old heratige and have uniqueness about them no matter how old they are.
Then theres the fact the cost would have been monumental (and the existing jubilee already cost loads).
One thing thats great about the jubilee is there is such a mixture of architechture and age on the line (1932, 1939, 1979 and 1999) it would be a bit dull if the line was all the same, and the JLE looks spectacular because its so unique.
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Post by railtechnician on May 9, 2011 0:29:25 GMT
Why didnt they? well its illogical really. Firstly LUL had and still does have a commitment to its heratige, SWC, STJW, BAS, BOS and GPK are all examples of old heratige and have uniqueness about them no matter how old they are. Then theres the fact the cost would have been monumental (and the existing jubilee already cost loads). One thing thats great about the jubilee is there is such a mixture of architechture and age on the line (1932, 1939, 1979 and 1999) it would be a bit dull if the line was all the same, and the JLE looks spectacular because its so unique. Not quite so with regard to heritage! Baker Street platform 9 and the lower circulating area was retiled in the late 1970s to match the fleetline red tiling of newly built platform 10. In the lower circulating area the old yellow tiling complete with individual 'Broadway' and 'Griffin' design tiles were hacked off before refacing the walls. However, on platform 9 the original tiling is extant as the new fascia was constructed about one foot in front of the original, the extended metal lathe mounted on unistrut framing and plastered to take the new red fleetline tiles. Thus at some future time others will 'discover' and perhaps uncover the original fascia complete with 1970s posters preserved for posterity! I was lucky enough to be working on the 'new' Jubilee line at the time running new signal cables in the old Bakerloo tunnel and the new Jubilee tunnels. I wouldn't call the 1970s Jubilee areas at Baker Street, Bond Street, Green Park and Charing Cross heritage yet, give them another 50 years! |
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Post by edwin on May 9, 2011 1:12:41 GMT
PEDs were installed on the JLE because the designers were worried that the air pulses generated with a full ATO railway would be sufficient to blow people over on station platforms as the train came in. The older section of the line does not have such high speed limits therefore less of a problem. Also the older stations would require platform strengthening to accommodate PEDs and it would reduce the width of those platforms. Regards, Dan The gusts of air on the JLE are not because of ATO but because of the different tunnel size, AFAIK. They believed that this would be a fire hazard, too. |
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Post by ianvisits on May 9, 2011 11:59:11 GMT
The downside of the platform doors is that people now know exactly where to stand in order to block the exits for passengers trying to get off the trains.
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2011 16:19:46 GMT
The downside of the platform doors is that people now know exactly where to stand in order to block the exits for passengers trying to get off the trains. Normally I find it useful to stand immediatly to the side of the PEDs. That way you don't obstruct fellow passengers wishing to get off but can get on pretty quickly. So for anyone with common sense, it indicates where not to stand so that you do not block the exits and gives maximum chance of getting a seat or a comfortable standing position.  |
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Post by jardine01 on May 9, 2011 17:53:07 GMT
I think it would be a good idea although expensive, to install PEDS from Green park to Swiss cottage. After that it is all overground so there is no point installing them in the open sections. I personally think all underground stations should have them to cut accidents and to put customers at ease when standing on a busy platform. Also with the Jubilee line being ATO trains come into the platform pritty fast too!
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2011 18:36:06 GMT
We've now run so low on common sense we dont know when to stand back!
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Post by railtechnician on May 9, 2011 18:40:04 GMT
I think it would be a good idea although expensive, to install PEDS from Green park to Swiss cottage. After that it is all overground so there is no point installing them in the open sections. I personally think all underground stations should have them to cut accidents and to put customers at ease when standing on a busy platform. Also with the Jubilee line being ATO trains come into the platform pritty fast too! I disagree, the Underground is not generally equipped to take PEDs and installing them in the older station tunnels would be costly. Passengers who are uneasy should take care, stand at the back of the platform and/or take a later train. PEDs create issues of their own, they are not the answer to all the issues and on balance a risk analysis would no doubt highlight the lack of value for money or significant decrease in accidents in a potential allocation of finance to any retrofit programme. |
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2011 18:56:13 GMT
I disagree, the Underground is not generally equipped to take PEDs and installing them in the older station tunnels would be costly. Passengers who are uneasy should take care, stand at the back of the platform and/or take a later train. PEDs create issues of their own, they are not the answer to all the issues and on balance a risk analysis would no doubt highlight the lack of value for money or significant decrease in accidents in a potential allocation of finance to any retrofit programme. I agree railtechnician it makes no sense to have long closures required for platform straightening and possibly station remodelling just to add PEDs. As an aside, is there any reason they were not added onto the Vic which has very straight platforms or is is much the same as on the Jub? |
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Post by younglulnerd on May 9, 2011 19:32:06 GMT
What about PED's at the Claphams? Would be less costly than new plats, right?
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Post by retep on May 9, 2011 20:03:07 GMT
What about PED's at the Claphams? Would be less costly than new plats, right? That's a good idea, but the platforms are so small, wouldn't PED's take space? |
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2011 18:33:09 GMT
Why PEDs only on the deep level stations? Surely the threat of electrocution is as great on surface.
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Post by Chris M on May 10, 2011 20:29:59 GMT
While the threat of electrocution for someone falling onto the tracks is the same, the risks of falling off are at least slightly lower (generally more space, no gusts of air). Preventing people falling off platforms is a side benefit of PEDs, not the reason they are installed.
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Post by Chris M on May 10, 2011 20:31:27 GMT
The downside of the platform doors is that people now know exactly where to stand in order to block the exits for passengers trying to get off the trains. Normally I find it useful to stand immediatly to the side of the PEDs. That way you don't obstruct fellow passengers wishing to get off but can get on pretty quickly. So for anyone with common sense, it indicates where not to stand so that you do not block the exits and gives maximum chance of getting a seat or a comfortable standing position. A couple(?) of years back there was a trial of platform markings at a few stations to try and educate people about where to stand. I guess this was a failure? |
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2011 21:14:06 GMT
A couple(?) of years back there was a trial of platform markings at a few stations to try and educate people about where to stand. I guess this was a failure? I think so, the markings started to fall apart and such. I believe there was something written somewhere on the forums, but I couldn't find something. Found this though: www.creativereview.co.uk/cr-blog/2008/february/mind-the-graphics |
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2011 21:24:35 GMT
The lattermost markings in that article appears very similar to the ones used by SMRT...
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Post by norbitonflyer on May 10, 2011 22:04:27 GMT
The Drain has had such markings for at least 40 years - however, the markings still line up with the 1940 stock, which left the line in 1993!
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