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Post by jamesm on Aug 13, 2005 18:24:14 GMT
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Post by q8 on Aug 13, 2005 19:07:35 GMT
I don't think it was any set policy to do these alterations just a matter of convenience as they went to Acton works for overhaul. If a door needed to be replaced they'd use whatever was to hand at the time. Plus the fact the curved glass was a bit of a pain to make. As for the end car windows I think that may have been because of the war and the blackout and the general shortage of glass to replace any bomb damaged ones.
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Phil
In memoriam
RIP 23-Oct-2018
Posts: 9,473
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Post by Phil on Aug 13, 2005 20:51:12 GMT
Plus the fact the curved glass was a bit of a pain to make.. Boy, you don't let up with the puns do you Q8? ;D ;D |
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Post by q8 on Aug 14, 2005 2:00:58 GMT
Plus the fact the curved glass was a bit of a pain to make.. Boy, you don't let up with the puns do you Q8? ;D ;D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Didn't even realise I had made a pun and anyway it's "Pane".....So Nah  |
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Post by russe on Aug 14, 2005 2:26:32 GMT
The Q23 cab front doors had recessed panels in the lower part of the door, and I can't find any cab front doors of this style on any other stock, so it's a bit of a mystery why there are two different window shapes. The 1927 K stock, Q31, and Q35 do not have recessed lower panels, and had rectangular, radius-cornered, windows, so that rules out their door interchangeability, and I think the window style and placement on cab doors of older D and E stock would rule those out as well. The slightly more complex cut of the glass was not a factor in my view, although it is true that Gloucester was certainly fond of that style, whereas other manufacturers were not. (Complex glass pane shapes feature on many designs - just look at the 1938 and 1959 etc standard stock cabs, for example, and the arched-top style was perpetuated in the windows of the passenger interconnecting doors on 1938 standard stock.) So my guess is that:
- the Q23 motors came from different manufacturers; or
- Gloucester decided to adopt a non-arched window design sometime through the build; or
- a later spares batch of cab doors was ordered, and these featured square-cut windows.
Concerning side windows in the ends of trailers, stock contemporary to the Q23s did not have side windows, e.g. Q31, Q35, K and M stock. But Gloucester-built E stock of 1914 probably did (?). There is a possibility that the original side windows in the ends of Q23 trailers were blanked out fairly soon after delivery, possibly to prevent untoward effects of passengers leaning against the glass, or as a result of a pre-WWII re-arrangement of the seating maybe? Or, if these windows were always reserved for a segregated guard's territory, the preserved one at Acton might be somewhat 'non-authentic'?
Russ
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Post by q8 on Aug 14, 2005 2:32:23 GMT
Regarding your comments about the end car windows at the trailling end of "G" cars Russ. When the cars were built the Guard had a cab of his own like a driver with lockable doors all round and I believe the windows were put in to give the man more light to work with. When the inner cab doors were taken off the windows may have been blanked then. It may have been a continuation of the idea started with the "F" stock as old Charlie told me that trailers of "G" stock were contemplated but the money ran out.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2005 2:43:29 GMT
Q stock cabs were known as "Horseboxes" I believe?
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Post by q8 on Aug 14, 2005 3:24:13 GMT
Q stock cabs were known as "Horseboxes" I believe?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Correct. So small that if you stood up yer rear was agin the back cab wall and you hit yer goolies as you turned the handle
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Post by russe on Aug 14, 2005 13:29:14 GMT
That sounds logical, Q8. From the pic posted by James ( i18.photobucket.com/albums/b140/jamesheljanowner/Q23-ex1non-driving-end.jpg), it is not possible to tell whether the inner cab doors had glass in them, as the inner door could have been in the opened position in that photo (a common trick of photographers, to get more light inside the subject). But why would the inner door have been removed? - the outer side door would have remained unusable by passengers, as they can only swing inwards, and they remained as such until the withdrawal of the stock. So where did the guard go then - in the rear driving compartment? Or maybe the window changes to the guard's compartment coincided with the change of passenger doors to pneumatic operation? The 1936 Q35s (for the H&C) were I believe the first pneumatic-door surface stock, so presumably the Q23 (and K and Q31 etc stock) would have been altered to suit fairly soon after? Late 1930s? Russ |
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Post by q8 on Aug 14, 2005 14:07:25 GMT
No Russ the inner Guards cab door had no window I believe also the wall of the cabin had no windows on the passenger side until the day they were scrapped. Believe me it was bloody gloomy in there with only one light bulb and the pilot light for illumination. Not much light came through those side door windows. One good thing about those little rooms though, the Guard had a PROPER fold up seat.
As for why the door was removed well it was to get more people in a train. But they had a dual purpose that the board did not intend. Being small, dim and snug they were used for all sorts of little shenanigans by courting couples and teenage boys. (the small holes drilled in the thin metal wall of considerable assistance to the latter for spying purposes)
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Post by russe on Aug 14, 2005 14:45:59 GMT
Ok. That confirms the original build state, as can be seen on a Q23 motor in pic U2831 in the LTM archive ( photos.ltmcollection.org/) I'm looking forward to your book, where you can reveal all! ;D ;D Russ |
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Post by q8 on Aug 14, 2005 19:14:28 GMT
I'm looking forward to your book, where you can reveal all! ;D ;D
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If I revealed all I saw in some of those little cabs the bloody book would be under the counter.
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