This weekend's closure - 23/24 July

[londonstuff]

Given that the TBTC upgrade on the Jub now seems complete does anyone know what this weekend's closure is for?

[Dstock7080]

Jul 23, 2011 16:27:58 GMT londonstuff said:

Given that the TBTC upgrade on the Jub now seems complete does anyone know what this weekend's closure is for?

" . . for Neasden Depot re-signalling work."

[Deleted]

Accepting this, why can't the Jubilee be reversed at Willesden Green rather than West Hampstead? This was in fact the plan according to www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/livetravelnews/realtime/tube/track-closures.pdf until a couple of weeks ago, as was the closure on 3-4 September, which I see has also just changed to West Hampstead.
Kilburn and Willesden Green are just about the most heavily heavily used suburban stations on the Jubilee, and that section is by far the worst for the replacement buses. Southbound they get stuck in jams on Willesden Lane, Kilburn High Road for about a mile, weaving through a crop of new major roadworks, to Quex Road, then they double back and get stuck again northbound on West end Lane. It regularly takes an hour from Willesden Green to West Hampstead, against 4 minutes by tube! This must be intensely galling for the less-savvy travellers [regulars take the ordinary service buses and/or the Bakerloo, but it still takes much longer. And some of us enjoy the continuing opportunities to travel in Routemasters on the replacements, but that's all bye-the-bye].
Met customers don't even have the alternative of Chilterns any more, as they're now stopped for the track slewing work at Neasden. So woe all round.
So to my main point – why can't the Jubilee be reversed at Willesden Green?

[Deleted]

I think the reason is because Willesden Green comes under the same VCC control system area as Neasden and Wembley and this is not available to LU this weekend to control trains because it is needed for the depot testing. As a result trains can only be controlled as far as West Hampstead which is in a different VCC control area.

[jardine01]

what about stratford depot does this need resignaling?

[littlebrute]

I'd have thought Stratford Market Depot was done at the same time as the rest of that stretch of line?

[br7mt]

SMD is still controlled using the original WestRace interlocking, with a boundary on the entry and exit roads onto the TBTC controlled main line.

Regards,

Dan

[Harsig]

The re-signalling of Neasden Depot is, as far as I am aware, not part of the Jubilee line resignalling project. It is just a coincidence that it has followed on so closely to the 'completion' of that scheme.
The existing signalling within Neaden Depot is over twenty years old, and I believe I am right in saying that it was the first computer based interlocking installed on the Underground. It is now life expired and failures are on the increase, some of them quite unpredictable in nature.
Direct replacement of failed electronic components is increasingly difficult and expensive as supplies of spare parts cannot be obtained because the components are of obsolete design and are no longer being manufactured. It is this last fact which probably provides the greatest justification for complete re-signalling as there will be a considerable saving in maintenance costs, which without re-signalling would only have climbed higher still.
This problem of obsolescent components limiting the life of signalling equipment is by no means unique to Neasden but also affects many early computer based interlockings on railways throughout the world.

[d7666]

Jubilee Line resignalling to TBTC was/is a Tube Lines contract (or JNP if you think like that). Neasden tower resignalling was a Metronet project - or SSL if you do think like that.



Jubilee TBTC is Thales Seltrac (S40) and - for the *general* purpose of contrast for this posting - has no trackside signals and does not use track circuits. Neasden tower resignalling is Thales Locktrac (6172). Seltrac and Locktrac are two completely different products from different parts of Thales; and I suspect originally from different constituents of Thales. I'm not sure to what extent track circuits are part of Locktrac, I'll have to dig, but ISTR at /generic/ level it is primarily axle counter based - but I do need to check on that so don't take is as fact.


As already stated upthread, the two projects are not related, it is a coincidence of timing, thats all. Even though *at* *the* *time* SSL was to have been Westinghouse re-signalled, Neasden tower still went to Thales.



I am a bit confused by the reason suggested that trains could not run to Willesden Green as I thought the boundary between VCC5 (which controls Neasden and Wembley and the Stanmore line was at Dollis Hill, and Willesden Green was VCC4. But I again could be wrong, its been 2.5 years since I was on the Jubilee. Maybe I am confusing the TBTC stages with VCC areas, not necessarily the same thing of course. Of course, if Willesden Green is VCC5 then thats the right answer.

--
Nick

[malcolmffc]

What an utter farce. Why couldn't a single signalling system have been selected for the entire Undergound?

[Deleted]

Jul 25, 2011 22:54:13 GMT malcolmffc said:

What an utter farce. Why couldn't a single signalling system have been selected for the entire Undergound?

The complete and utter screwup that was called the PPP.

You seem to have forgotten/not learnt though that signalling in depots is completely a seperate entity to that on the lines! (give or take entry/exit)

[abe]

Blame John Prescott. He insisted that the Underground infrastructure had to be split into three separate companies, against the advice of those who actually ran and worked on the Underground.

Still, politicians always know best, don't they...