Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Aug 4, 2011 2:49:53 GMT
For many months now we've had double announcements for every station.
The explanation was always given that the first came from the traditional system (based on wheel revolution counts?) and the second from the new system (location gained from one or more of the ATO systems).
However, it's been a while now since the legacy signalling system was used byu passenger trains, so why are we still getting both announcements?
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Post by trivran on Aug 4, 2011 8:06:23 GMT
I haven't noticed the double annoucments and I use the Jubilee quite a lot..must be just unlucky Chris ;D
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2011 9:05:39 GMT
I have wondered the same thing, Chris. Whatever the reason I'm confident that no attempt will be made to rectify this even if there's an easy fix.
I tend to silence the second announcement by pressing the PA button. It may seem trivial but I think we are bombarded with so many superfluous announcements on the tube these days it's something we should band together and fight against!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2011 10:15:46 GMT
On the Paris Metro, those trains that have station announcements deliberately (I assume) give the name of the station twice. It's roughly when the front of the train enters the station and when the end of the train enters. The same sort of thing with those buses that have announcements for the stops.
Presumably it is the same kind of mindset that has many French churches strike the hour twice: the first one is to get your attention, and the second is so you can actually take in the information.
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Post by uzairjubilee on Aug 4, 2011 10:20:23 GMT
I think it may be because the old signalling has not been properly decommissioned? I don't know for sure, however I think that could be a viable reason.
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Post by Alight on Aug 4, 2011 11:08:03 GMT
I haven't noticed the double annoucments and I use the Jubilee quite a lot..must be just unlucky Chris ;D I use the Jubilee line practically every day and I've not been on a train which hasn't played double announcements, if I'm honest! So you must be incredibly lucky  Like Chris M says, the second announcement corresponds to the new system so the first one should be decommissioned. |
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Post by jardine01 on Aug 4, 2011 18:53:53 GMT
I think it is a case of some trains seem to play it twice and others just once
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2011 19:58:25 GMT
No, it's twice every time I assure you. As I say, I sometimes silence the second one but never known anyone else to.
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Post by trivran on Aug 4, 2011 21:57:38 GMT
I must be on your train every time I use the Jubilee then!
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Post by causton on Aug 7, 2011 14:47:09 GMT
I was under the impression that the new announcement is triggered by the new signalling, but the old one is done entirely by the train (counting distance from last station with axle counters or something like that?) so the trains would need to be modified individually to fix it...
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Aug 12, 2011 16:19:26 GMT
Axle counters are track(side?) mounted and count the number of axles passing a fixed point.
When trains count distance I think they count wheel revolutions.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2011 19:13:32 GMT
I was under the impression that the new announcement is triggered by the new signalling, but the old one is done entirely by the train (counting distance from last station with axle counters or something like that?) so the trains would need to be modified individually to fix it... The 72, C stock, 1992 stock and formerly the 67 stock's system work like that. The 96 stocks old system used to work from loops fitted on the track triggering the announcements. |
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Post by tecchy on Aug 14, 2011 18:26:08 GMT
The 1992 Stock DVA is fed from the brake encoder. Hence when a certain brake command is received, it plays.
The 96's old system was, and still is on a timer. The new TBTC allows another announcement to be played via the brake encoder like the 1992's. They still have both hence the playing of two.
All other stocks I cannot speak for. But logic would state that the C/72/67 stocks are all the same and probably are done via wheel revolutions as it is old technology.
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Post by jardine01 on Aug 14, 2011 21:08:22 GMT
Although these double announcements are a bit annoying. I found it quite useful today sometimes if there is allot off noise you cannot hear it well when the noise died down I heard the second one go off. I hope they do remove this announcement soon!
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Post by Hassaan on Aug 14, 2011 21:12:34 GMT
Although these double announcements are a bit annoying. I found it quite useful today sometimes if there is allot off noise you cannot hear it well when the noise died down I heard the second one go off. I hope they do remove this announcement soon! At least the announcements and speakers work. On the 73TS, sometimes the announcements don't play at all and also some cars have very low DVA sound. |
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Post by causton on Aug 22, 2011 23:45:10 GMT
Although these double announcements are a bit annoying. I found it quite useful today sometimes if there is allot off noise you cannot hear it well when the noise died down I heard the second one go off. I hope they do remove this announcement soon! Which might be good, as I believe the second one is the new one!  ...assuming the old announcements will be removed... |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2011 1:01:39 GMT
Speaking to a Jubly driver about them, he said he can turn the original announcement system off using the computer thing, and just use the TBTC associated ones. He said that most drivers just cant be bothered to do that.
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Post by antharro on Aug 24, 2011 21:11:05 GMT
I noticed this on a couple of trains last week, annoyed the heck out of me. Twice before the doors open then once when the doors are open. Enough already!  |
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North End
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Post by North End on Aug 24, 2011 23:41:13 GMT
Speaking to a Jubly driver about them, he said he can turn the original announcement system off using the computer thing, and just use the TBTC associated ones. He said that most drivers just cant be bothered to do that. If it's anything like the 95 stock, there would be a TMS menu called "AV message control". This gives options to disable various messages, I think the options are disable all, disable next station, disable all except terminus / interchange, enable all, disable all for one station only. Generally however I don't think Train Operators are actually trained on the purpose of this menu, though that's not to say that the more curious ones won't have discovered it. The only time when it may get used on the Northern is when a station is closed, you can use the "disable all for one station only" to prevent a "next station" message being announced and to keep the saloon displays blank. However it's a fiddle to set up, and it doesn't always work properly, and on some (but not all!) trains you have to set it up 2 stations before the one you are going to non-stop. It's easier just to press the PA button to keep Celia quiet and then unpress it once clear of the closed station. From my limited experience with 96 stock TMS, I'd imagine the setup is similar. Anyone know any better ? |
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Post by tecchy on Aug 25, 2011 0:06:50 GMT
It is possible to turn the timed announcement off via the TMS. If you wanted to be doubly clever you could pickup the handset and press the PA button and this would cut out the DVAs as a whole.
If you wanted to be clever but stupid at the same time you could trip the DVA MCB. But this in turn could bring more problems as many MCBs control fifferent circuits than what they are labelled!
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Post by Alight on Aug 25, 2011 12:50:24 GMT
The only time when it may get used on the Northern is when a station is closed, you can use the "disable all for one station only" to prevent a "next station" message being announced and to keep the saloon displays blank. However it's a fiddle to set up, and it doesn't always work properly, and on some (but not all!) trains you have to set it up 2 stations before the one you are going to non-stop. It's easier just to press the PA button to keep Celia quiet and then unpress it once clear of the closed station. This would explain why I haven't yet been on a train going past Tottenham Court Road recently that hasn't cut off "The next station is Tottenham Court Road." Mind you, there is a YouTube clip somewhere of Celia saying "The next station is closed" - how do drivers set this up? |
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North End
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Post by North End on Aug 25, 2011 22:20:05 GMT
The only time when it may get used on the Northern is when a station is closed, you can use the "disable all for one station only" to prevent a "next station" message being announced and to keep the saloon displays blank. However it's a fiddle to set up, and it doesn't always work properly, and on some (but not all!) trains you have to set it up 2 stations before the one you are going to non-stop. It's easier just to press the PA button to keep Celia quiet and then unpress it once clear of the closed station. This would explain why I haven't yet been on a train going past Tottenham Court Road recently that hasn't cut off "The next station is Tottenham Court Road." Mind you, there is a YouTube clip somewhere of Celia saying "The next station is closed" - how do drivers set this up? I think the software has been modified to prevent any TCR announcements being made. The next station is closed message is manually selected by Train Operators. Go to TMS main menu, select "Broadcast", scroll down to the relevant message, and press Enter twice. They made a bit of a fuss about people using this message for TCR, on the basis that technically the station isn't closed, it's only Northern Line trains not stopping there. So in theory that message shouldn't be heard at TCR. In practice common sense prevails however. |
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Post by Alight on Aug 26, 2011 9:38:53 GMT
This would explain why I haven't yet been on a train going past Tottenham Court Road recently that hasn't cut off "The next station is Tottenham Court Road." Mind you, there is a YouTube clip somewhere of Celia saying "The next station is closed" - how do drivers set this up? I think the software has been modified to prevent any TCR announcements being made. Just realised I made a mistake. I meant to say none of the trains I've been on going past TCR have cut off the announcement. I assume this is due to what you said above about it being a fiddle to set up. |
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Post by jardine01 on Sept 5, 2011 18:12:59 GMT
When will these Double announcements stop?
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Post by Alight on Jan 22, 2012 23:31:56 GMT
It has been a while since I used the Jubilee line. Would anyone be able to confirm whether or not the double announcements is still an issue on the Jubilee line, between stations?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2012 0:25:30 GMT
Was still an issue as of a week or two back. I didn't realise it was an issue, I assumed it was by design...  |
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Jan 23, 2012 0:35:00 GMT
I don't recall hearing double announcements either time I used the Jubilee last week (Canning Town > Stratford; Swiss Cottage > Neasden), but then I could easily have just been filtering out all announcements!
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Post by jardine01 on Jan 23, 2012 7:24:02 GMT
I went on the Jubilee line the other day the train was playing announcements twice
The double announcements was to do with the train management system
but they should of took the old announments off triggered by the old system and put the new TBTC announments on. I have noticed the announcement for the next station plays right when it comes into the station.
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castlebar
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Post by castlebar on Jan 23, 2012 7:45:14 GMT
One major problem I have noticed is when Picc trains are, or are not stopping at Turnham Green. There is NO announcement at all until the doors are shut at Hammersmith, so Turnham Green pax don't know whether its stopping there or not until the announcement says : "The next station is.............." either Turnham Green or Acton Town when its too late to do anything about it!! This is something where some clarity is needed.
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Post by v52gc on Jan 23, 2012 8:22:01 GMT
One major problem I have noticed is when Picc trains are, or are not stopping at Turnham Green. There is NO announcement at all until the doors are shut at Hammersmith, so Turnham Green pax don't know whether its stopping there or not until the announcement says : "The next station is.............." either Turnham Green or Acton Town when its too late to do anything about it!! This is something where some clarity is needed. That's more down to when the operator closes the doors then the system used! Anyway, it stops there after 2230 and early morning. |
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