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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2006 14:48:08 GMT
Hi There,
I have a question for you people. Last night, i was heading home from Wimbledon on a C Stock we pulled into Wimbledon Park station stopped opend the doors closed them.
We pulled off and the driver opened the Nearside Cab door, and kept it open as far as East Putney where it then was closed.
The question is i thoight that the Cab Doors were interlocked with the motoring circuits meaning you couldn't motor with them doors open. Is this true?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2006 14:52:21 GMT
I'm pretty certain theres a Cab Door Interlock Cut Out Switch. I've sat on a 'C' from HSK to Edg Rd and the T/Op had BOTH cab doors open! Mind you, this was in the Summer...
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2006 14:52:51 GMT
Hi There, I have a question for you people. Last night, i was heading home from Wimbledon on a C Stock we pulled into Wimbledon Park station stopped opend the doors closed them. We pulled off and the driver opened the Nearside Cab door, and kept it open as far as East Putney where it then was closed. The question is i thoight that the Cab Doors were interlocked with the motoring circuits meaning you couldn't motor with them doors open. Is this true? That applies to ATO only.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2006 14:54:19 GMT
The cab doors in the operative cab are on a separate curcuit from the rest of the train and can be opened at any time, although the driver is not supposed to have his side open when the train is moving he may have the offside door open any time he wishes. He was probably getting some fresh air in, perhaps he was a little tired, it can get quite stuffy in cabs when the fan heater is blowing out dry air.
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Post by Tomcakes on Mar 19, 2006 15:19:26 GMT
There was an incident a few years ago when a driver fell out of a cab door after he fainted - the other drivers were discussing a recent operation or something.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2006 16:49:03 GMT
there is a door interlock for the cab heard the warning alarm many times but usually 99.9% of the time its cut-out
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2006 17:04:28 GMT
There was an incident a few years ago when a driver fell out of a cab door after he fainted - the other drivers were discussing a recent operation or something. Luckily, I think it was in a siding or something. Either way, the driver who fell out only had scrapes and bruises.
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Mar 19, 2006 17:18:42 GMT
To clarify the original question, when the the cab is opened up the offside cab door is not part of any circuit and will not affect the train if it is open. The nearside cab door, when open will prevent motoring unless the cab door interlock switch is cut out.
All other cab doors, ie those in the middle (if there is one!) and at the back, are in the train door (passenger door) circuit - so will affect the pilot light if they are opened / left open.
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Post by tom2506 on Mar 19, 2006 17:34:32 GMT
Is the front cab door (M door is it?) in the interlocks in a 95 stock because I seem to remember an episode of The Tube where there was a 95 stock going past in a depot and the front door was open.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2006 17:44:26 GMT
Yeah, you can open the M door on a 95 when moving. Was on a cabbing trip heading to Kennington, went past an air shaft or 'bolt hole' near Angel, blooming M door flew open and bashed my knee! I gave it a most refreshing kick.
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Post by tom2506 on Mar 19, 2006 17:55:52 GMT
I'd imagine they are quite heavy, that must have been sore
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Post by c5 on Mar 19, 2006 19:06:26 GMT
It was at Moorgate. There was another operator in the saloon who took the train to Barking, whilst the IO and trainee went to A&E There was an incident a few years ago when a driver fell out of a cab door after he fainted - the other drivers were discussing a recent operation or something. Luckily, I think it was in a siding or something. Either way, the driver who fell out only had scrapes and bruises.
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Post by tom2506 on Mar 19, 2006 19:15:52 GMT
Was it the I/O or the trainee who fell out of the train and what injuries were sustained?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2006 19:39:18 GMT
I'd imagine they are quite heavy, that must have been sore The door isn't that heavy itself, but becomes a challenge to bang home with a 35mph passing wind in a confined space! My knee ended up being a nice Grey/maroon colour for two weeks. I ended up with a slight limp for same time; hurt like a good'un whenever I bent the knee, so I had to sort of walk like the knee wasn't there! I must have looked rather peculiar changing ends...
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solidbond
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Post by solidbond on Mar 19, 2006 21:11:47 GMT
To clarify the original question, when the the cab is opened up the offside cab door is not part of any circuit and will not affect the train if it is open. The nearside cab door, when open will prevent motoring unless the cab door interlock switch is cut out. All other cab doors, ie those in the middle (if there is one!) and at the back, are in the train door (passenger door) circuit - so will affect the pilot light if they are opened / left open. That is of course on D stock However, since the original poster said he was on a C stock, then BOTH cab doors are affected by the cab door interlock ;D ;D (Colin - when is your C stock refresher due? ;D ;D)
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solidbond
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Post by solidbond on Mar 19, 2006 21:14:05 GMT
Was it the I/O or the trainee who fell out of the train and what injuries were sustained? It was the trainee who fell out, and he suffered some quite bad cuts to his forehead, nose and his ankle. To clarify, he had only just opened the cab door in order to get some air in the cab as he was feeling a little nauseous, rather than having driven any distance with the door open.
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Mar 19, 2006 21:49:40 GMT
That is of course on D stock However, since the original poster said he was on a C stock, then BOTH cab doors are affected by the cab door interlock ;D ;D Whoops ;D (Colin - when is your C stock refresher due? ;D ;D) Not in March or May ;D ;D
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2006 9:49:25 GMT
Virtually all District D stock drivers run with the nearside cab door interlock cut out ...to the point that if you end up in one with it cut it, it can take a few seconds to work out why no forward movement can be obtained !
Although running with the nearside cab door open is not officially approved, it is normal practice in the summer and cab riding managers generally welcome the breeze. If someone is in my cab I have the door closed their side for their safety and mine open. I have the seat so close to the console falling out would be virtually impossible !
You may also notice driver have doors wedged open a few inches or so, it prevents too much dirt or dust being sucked in the cab whilst allowing a breeze in tunnel sections. On D stock a shoe paddle is the usual wedge, on a C stock a fuse seems the favored choice ;D
On the Victoria Line 1967 stock, if the M door is open no forward movement can be obtained in Auto. If the door is opened or comes open whilst in motion the Auto will drop out and power to motors will cut, the train will then coast. The train must then be driven manually to the next station. This was effected after a driver at a red signal exited via the M door to use the signal post telephone, the signal cleared and train shot off with him pressed against the tunnel wall, he was picked up by the following train which stopped at the signal the section ahead being occupied by the now driverless train in a station.
No side Cab doors on a 1967 but the droplight windows can only be opened an inch or so, any lower and an interlock will prevent motoring in Auto, this is to prevent an operator loosing his/her head on the headwall whilst looking back at a platform as the train departs.
Having spoken to someone who was in the cab of the train where the trainee on a C stock feinted and fell out whilst the subject of vasectomy was being discussed in detail ! I gather it was near Barbican and he fell out at one of the few locations where it was possible to do so without being killed or seriously maimed - he was very lucky !
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2006 20:45:13 GMT
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Mar 22, 2006 23:57:36 GMT
As more D stocks get refurbished, there will be less need to have the cab doors open - thanks to the wonders of air conditioning (till it breaks of course ;D ;D).
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2006 19:29:59 GMT
Having spoken to someone who was in the cab of the train where the trainee on a C stock feinted and fell out whilst the subject of vasectomy was being discussed in detail ! I gather it was near Barbican and he fell out at one of the few locations where it was possible to do so without being killed or seriously maimed - he was very lucky ! Hmm, I remember hearing this same story. Apparently, the guy in question pleaded with the tellers to be silent...
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2006 21:39:27 GMT
Was it the I/O or the trainee who fell out of the train and what injuries were sustained? It was the trainee who fell out, and he suffered some quite bad cuts to his forehead, nose and his ankle. To clarify, he had only just opened the cab door in order to get some air in the cab as he was feeling a little nauseous, rather than having driven any distance with the door open. Aaah. Another driver with his foot in his mouth..! Sam
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prjb
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Post by prjb on Mar 27, 2006 14:10:49 GMT
As more D stocks get refurbished, there will be less need to have the cab doors open - thanks to the wonders of air conditioning (till it breaks of course ;D ;D). Bombardier are fitting good quality units to the 'D' so hopefully this shouldn't happen too much. I have spent quite a bit of time on the 'D' Stock Refurb line at Derby and their quality control is second to none. The Bombardier guys are really genuinely 'revved up' and want to get it right first time, they are putting a lot of time and money into quality control. Blimey, I hope I haven't gone 'native'! Future thinking is to remove cab door interlocks altogether and not allow the train to move full stop with a cab door open, except of course in RM. The jury is out on that one for me at the moment.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2006 14:30:03 GMT
Bombardier are fitting good quality units to the 'D' so hopefully this shouldn't happen too much. I have spent quite a bit of time on the 'D' Stock Refurb line at Derby and their quality control is second to none. The Bombardier guys are really genuinely 'revved up' and want to get it right first time, they are putting a lot of time and money into quality control. I beg to differ on this. Many of the refurbs have appaling cab paint jobs, the grime in the corners of the drivers desk and offside desk of a lot of the units has been simply painted over.
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prjb
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Post by prjb on Mar 27, 2006 15:21:52 GMT
quote]I beg to differ on this. Many of the refurbs have appaling cab paint jobs, the grime in the corners of the drivers desk and offside desk of a lot of the units has been simply painted over. I must be honest, I need to 'back peddle' a bit here (typical management! ;D) as I have been concentrating on the equipment side of things as averse to the ambience. Certainly from an equipment point of view they are pretty on the ball and failure rates for the refurb's are better than expected. I know a lot of people are upset that they are not replacing glass for example, but there are good reasons behind things like that. I will be up in Derby on Wednesday and will mention this to the line manager and my LU colleague who deals with ambience.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2006 15:27:34 GMT
I will be up in Derby on Wednesday and will mention this to the line manager and my LU colleague who deals with ambience. I will be checking on future paint jobs on newly returned refurbs, and if they are still bad, I will whine at you like a spare driver who has been given a whole turn to do, you have been warned ;D
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prjb
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Post by prjb on Mar 27, 2006 15:46:03 GMT
Nice one Jim, no change there then (you used to do that at Edg Rd too! ;D )
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solidbond
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Post by solidbond on Mar 27, 2006 15:59:34 GMT
Well - take the example of Train 9, 7104 - 7061. I worked it on it's first day in service. First the CIS did not work correctly at BOTH ends as detailed here. In 7061, there were still lots of snagging stickers all over the cab, as well as having a filthy windscreen which I tried to clean by throwing hot water over it, only to discover that the wiper was only clearing the middle third it's sweep Added to that are all the things that were changed on the refurbs, but nobody thought to tell Train Operators, and more importantly Stock Trainer I/O's, so we only found out about them when they behaved differently whilst simulating defects.
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prjb
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Post by prjb on Mar 27, 2006 16:08:29 GMT
Ok, lets see:
Snagging Stickers - Was not aware of these, can you elaborate? Dirty Windscreen - This is down to Metronet, it should not have been offered for service. Defective Wiper - Again, this is a Metronet failure and should not have been offered.
Changes to the refurb's should have been detailed in items such as the 'D' stock Handbook, line supplement, and RS notices as well as the 'DISI'. This is a line issue rather than a Bombardier one, are you saying the refurb's were put in without all the relevant literature being updated (or updated incorrectly)?
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solidbond
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Post by solidbond on Mar 27, 2006 16:37:53 GMT
I'll post a pic of the snagging stickers a little later. But the issues of changed usage of items were things that Bombardier FAILED to tell LU operational staff, including the LSM. Things such as the fact that the CIS is fed from a new fuse in the UNDM, and as such is now separate from the Clean Feed circuits in the leading cab, and will still work, even if the Gassing Switch Relay MCB trips, or the Clean Feed Fuse blows. This affects defect handling for train operators. They also failed to mention that the Compressor Governors are now in the Load Shed circuit, so if the MAs are tripped, 20 secs later there will be no compressors working whether on or off current. We await with interest to find out what other changes were made that will affect us, that we don't know about
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