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Post by 21146 on Sept 4, 2011 18:48:46 GMT
There would hardly be any in the full black catagory!
Note how the Victoria Line now has level access on part of every platform (except Pimlico), but only four with access to/from street level!
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Post by 21146 on Sept 4, 2011 18:50:20 GMT
I think the ex-NR parts of LO retain the staff-operated yellow mobile wheelchair ramps mandatory on the rest of the rail network but LU are exempt from this requirement. Looks as if these are coming to LU too, have recently been held at several platforms for 'staff familiarisation' with these devices. Better stop leaving stations unstaffed or in the care of agency staff/security guards then!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2011 19:25:47 GMT
I noticed the changes to the map as well. I've also seen the new symbol on the strip maps inside some (but not all) Piccadilly line trains.
There is a subtle difference between level access to the platform, and level access to the train. At stations such as Uxbridge and Hillingdon, which are served by both Picc and Met line trains, you can get to the the platform OK but there is a step down or up to the train as the floor heights are different on the different trains. Even the S-stock trains are slightly higher that the platform at these stations, but are almost level with the platform at Harrow-on-the-Hill.
Having said that, there doesn't seem to be a symbol for those stations on the Victoria line where part of the platform has been raised to give level access between the platform and the train, but there's absolutely no way to get to the platform without escalators and steps!
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Post by norbitonflyer on Sept 4, 2011 20:57:28 GMT
Yes, I understand the difference, but there is no point in distinguishing the three categories: a platform from which you can't board a train is no more or less use than a platform which you can't get to in the first place.
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Phil
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Post by Phil on Sept 4, 2011 22:19:06 GMT
a platform from which you can't board a train is no more or less use than a platform which you can't get to in the first place. There is! The white sticker does not say you can't board a train. just that the access isn't step-free. So in some cases the wheelchair user can still get on the train - - but in others they can't! Comes down to local knowledge I suppose. In the second case though (as mentioned above with the Vic) the whole process on the face of it seems pointless. Except that building nice new trains with wheelchair access and not adapting platforms is - But OTOH adapting platforms and then not giving street access to those who've seen the platform ramps and carefully manoeuvred their chair off the train is, well, worse ??
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2011 12:16:08 GMT
On the general subject of "accessibility", sometimes I wish this wasn't always equated to wheelchair access.
Mum is nearly 90 but can get around on her two frail pins with a stick. She can manage an occasional step but finds a flight of stairs difficult, particularly downwards. So, when she arrives at Kings Cross, lift access to the tube platform is essential, but a step up or down onto the train is difficult but not impossible.
Arriving at Ruislip, if she feels brave she'll get off there. If not, she'll continue to Hillingdon, cross to the opposite platform using the lift, then ride back to Ruislip where there is a level exit from the platform to the train.
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Post by mcmaddog on Sept 5, 2011 12:37:51 GMT
I've seen a guy in what looks like a standard wheelchair haul himself up into an LO train at Forest Hill using the two grab rails. Ovbiously he couldn't have managed a flight of stairs but a single step with grab rails made it possible.
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Sept 5, 2011 13:28:08 GMT
What about three colours for station names, say, Black for full level access, Blue for limited level access, and Red for no access? Only station with interchange, entry and exit to all platforms and trains would be black. Why make it harder for people with less than 100% vision to use the standard tube map just to provide slightly less limited information for wheelchair users when there is already a separate map that gives full details for many people with mobility difficulties? At Embankment on Saturday evening I did pick up a bright yellow slightly-larger-than-pocket-size leaflet advertising all the alternative tube maps available (black and white, large print, audio, step free, etc), so a start seems to be being made to make people aware of these. It wasn't very clear where to get hold of these alternatives. Some were marked as online only but no URL was given in the entry. For everything that isn't online only there was no indication that it was or wasn't available online as well. On the back of the leaflet it gives you an address and a phone number. No mention of them being available at the station - presumably this would interfere with removing staff from stations by removing a service from disabled people? There weren't any pocket tube maps in evidence at all, old or new, though. And no staff visible to ask either (I didn't see a single staff member on my journey from the entrance nearest Charing Cross to the eastbound District line).
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2011 18:26:22 GMT
So what step free from platform to train? Why so difficult?
For example, Shepherd's Bush, which was given a massive refurb a few years ago. Why couldn't they have raised the platforms to match the height of the trains?
Isn't Heathrow T123 due for a refurb? Will the platforms be reheightened there?
Okay the Uxbridge branch, Ealing Common and the Watford DC line stations will be a problem but like with the Vic station humps, couldn't they put in low points and high points on the platforms as a solution?
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Post by dmncf on Sept 5, 2011 19:03:22 GMT
Am I reading the correctly - Heathrow Terminal 5 does not have step free access from street to train? Even though it was built after the Jubilee line extension and most of the DLR?
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Sept 5, 2011 20:48:42 GMT
Most information displayed on the map though is lacking in the subtleties that would make the info useful. BR interchange; great, to where? Zones; on the back. Blobs; as above.
Then theres the Overground. Why not other London rail services that run 4tph+ aswell, but then what do you do with Hainault-Woodford and Chesham? Then for the ultra purist, the DLR/Tramlink issues. So you return to a Beck map, which is elegant artisticly. But is it defendable as being of most use to the public something which ignors everything else? Something which snubbs even the muse of integrated transport, or rail transport that isn't by quirk of history 'the tube'. What if the Met had become mainline like the GN&C, would it be on the map? A lot of grey area. I'd like to see a tube-only map, but nowadays it'd probably be best appreciated as art.
Re High and Low points; the problem would be in whether a door at one level stops in position with a bump/trough of the other. Then you'd have a maximum height gap, which wouldn't be acceptable or practical. If you go to Uxbridge, right by the signals at the end of the platforms and look at the gap between the first doors of an A stock train and the platform edge, such a deliberately built height difference would be greater still.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2011 18:28:34 GMT
But OTOH adapting platforms and then not giving street access to those who've seen the platform ramps and carefully manoeuvred their chair off the train is, well, worse ?? While stations like Stockwell, Oxford Circus, Euston, Highbury and Islington, and Finsbury Park do not give step free access to the street, they do allow step free interchange to other lines so adapting the platform is not without merit.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2011 23:26:07 GMT
Call me insensitive, but this is really silly. PC gone absolutely nuts. Chances are that if someone wants to know whether or not they will be able to use a certain station without any steps being involved, this map will tell them absolutely nothing. It's too complicated.
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Post by londonstuff on Sept 9, 2011 6:21:48 GMT
Regarding the blue and white step-free access 'blobs', this is from Diamond Geezer and sums up the ridiculousness of it all. It's very, very funny.
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Post by messiah on Sept 9, 2011 12:25:17 GMT
Any idea why Canada Water shows there being no step free access from platform to train on the East London line? The trains looked to be at the perfect height for the platform, with practically no gap.
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Post by 21146 on Sept 9, 2011 13:56:27 GMT
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Post by metrailway on Sept 9, 2011 22:15:56 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2011 14:24:47 GMT
Both platforms have step free access at Epping, it is just that for platform 1 it is through a side gate to a local cul-de-sac. It is quite a distance from the station building for someone mobility impaired and you also need to contact a member of staff to unlock the gate, so not the best solution, but it is possible.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2011 15:35:51 GMT
Is Epping staffed at all times anyway?
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Sept 13, 2011 9:27:40 GMT
At least for practical purposes, I don't think it is.
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