Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2011 19:44:31 GMT
I note with interest that the entire Jubilee line is suspended owing to a signalling systems failure. What have the likes of Mike Brown been going on about ageing infrastructure, 150 years old etc etc, it's the new stuff that is not fit for purpose!
Oh and just as well there's a driver on the trains or they'd have to ask the passengers to move the train!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2011 20:06:59 GMT
Oh no, not again! Doesn't this equate to a good service??  ;D ;D  |
|
|
|
Post by plasmid on Nov 4, 2011 20:10:33 GMT
Train drivers are a must...otherwise I don't know what answer you're looking for here.
A modern system is manageable, an old system isn't manageable as parts are difficult to source. Modern systems don't include 100% reliability and that of the Jubilee is still bedding in, they haven't even finished the new timetable which comes into play next year. The Victoria Line signalling was completed 2 years ago but that still has problems...manageable problems.
The system isn't an off-the-shelf product and had to be tailored to accommodate the trains and 4-rail.
Overall the reliability should have improved which I don't doubt it has. Perhaps someone could provide the figures of the amount of failures since the new system went live compared to the months before with the old system.
|
|
Ben
fotopic... whats that?
Posts: 4,282 
|
Post by Ben on Nov 4, 2011 20:56:27 GMT
But surely its easier to make custom mechanical technology from scratch than to make outdated electronic componants from scratch?
|
|
|
|
Post by jardine01 on Nov 4, 2011 21:11:37 GMT
Just bring back the old signaling system with manual driving much less complicated.
|
|
|
|
Post by plasmid on Nov 4, 2011 21:17:12 GMT
Just bring back the old signaling system with manual driving much less complicated. That would be the end of the world for you as trains would have less performance. |
|
|
|
Post by chrisvandenkieboom on Nov 4, 2011 21:18:40 GMT
Now it's on severe delays due to an ill passenger at LBG... and a signalling failure, still..
|
|
|
|
Post by londonstuff on Nov 4, 2011 21:54:48 GMT
Just bring back the old signaling system with manual driving much less complicated. Because there were no signal failures on the line prior to the introduction of TBTC, were there?  |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2011 22:25:09 GMT
Just bring back the old signaling system with manual driving much less complicated. Because there were no signal failures on the line prior to the introduction of TBTC, were there? I've not heard of a single signal failure suspending an entire line before... |
|
|
|
Post by mcmaddog on Nov 4, 2011 22:43:02 GMT
Because there were no signal failures on the line prior to the introduction of TBTC, were there? I've not heard of a single signal failure suspending an entire line before... Happens sometimes on the Waterloo & City |
|
|
|
Post by rsdworker on Nov 4, 2011 22:56:45 GMT
Just bring back the old signaling system with manual driving much less complicated. Because there were no signal failures on the line prior to the introduction of TBTC, were there? its was therer few normal older signal failures - i recall correctly before TBTC |
|
Dom K
Global Moderator
The future is bright
Posts: 1,831
|
Post by Dom K on Nov 4, 2011 22:57:03 GMT
yeah, you get part suspension on the Waterloo & City Line.... seriously ive seen it happen  |
|
|
|
Post by chrisvandenkieboom on Nov 5, 2011 10:11:57 GMT
yeah, you get part suspension on the Waterloo & City Line.... seriously ive seen it happen Wait, so it goes to the middle of the tunnel, then it reverses back? xD |
|
Dom K
Global Moderator
The future is bright
Posts: 1,831
|
Post by Dom K on Nov 5, 2011 10:16:23 GMT
TFL site said Part Suspension as the problem... obviously an error, but was funny seeing it Imagine the passengers face, you have just left bank, next stop is... bank |
|
|
|
Post by chrisvandenkieboom on Nov 5, 2011 10:18:04 GMT
TFL site said Part Suspension as the problem... obviously an error, but was funny seeing it Imagine the passengers face, you have just left bank, next stop is... bank It's like the Kennington loop, but much rarer. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2011 11:24:23 GMT
It's theoretically possible if one of the platforms at Waterloo is not suitable for passenger use so trains run empty in one direction.
I've also arrived at Bank when the station was being evacuated due to a fire alert, we were allowed to get off and leave the station, but I don't know if following trains already in the pipe were sent back to Waterloo or were just held in the tunnel until it cleared.
|
|
Rich32
Staff Emeritus
Posts: 1,506
|
Post by Rich32 on Nov 5, 2011 16:02:17 GMT
*cough* Gents, this is the Jubilee line board. *cough*
|
|
North End
Beneath Newington Causeway
Posts: 1,769
|
Post by North End on Nov 5, 2011 16:49:23 GMT
Just bring back the old signaling system with manual driving much less complicated. Because there were no signal failures on the line prior to the introduction of TBTC, were there? What you didn't get before was a failure which suspends the entire line. With conventional signalling, this is extremely rare. It happened on the Northern Line last Friday, but it's is a very, very, very rare occurrence. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2011 16:57:36 GMT
The down side of modern 'centrally' controlled systems I'm afraid. The design of TBTC however if compared to something like the Central Line system does make it particularly more prone to line suspensions due to the 'design' of the Control System computers, but they have all had that - Central Line included!
|
|
|
|
Post by jardine01 on Nov 5, 2011 17:21:22 GMT
When the old signaling system was in operation why could trains not of run on full preformance? I know it may be due to signal overlaps but i have been on other metro systems which have used fixed block signaling and is manually driven and trains seemed to have good preformance.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2011 17:34:10 GMT
Which metro system jardine01
|
|
|
|
Post by jardine01 on Nov 5, 2011 17:52:09 GMT
Tyne and Wear metro in Newcastle
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2011 18:00:34 GMT
I much prefer tripcock signalling, I believe standardisation is far more important but LUL are going other way...
The old system on the jubilee was pretty unreliable though especially in comparison to the northerns which seems fairly good from a passengers point of view.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2011 18:38:14 GMT
Tyne and Wear metro in Newcastle Yes not a bad system but based on low service frequencies than on tube. Also isn't it considered to be a light rail system? |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2011 18:42:15 GMT
I much prefer tripcock signalling, I believe standardisation is far more important but LUL are going other way... The old system on the jubilee was pretty unreliable though especially in comparison to the northerns which seems fairly good from a passengers point of view. I like the system the Paris metro uses which on the older lines uses 3 aspect signalling with full ATP and ATO available. All lines except line 10 have it. |
|
Ben
fotopic... whats that?
Posts: 4,282
|
Post by Ben on Nov 5, 2011 19:03:12 GMT
Is that so? That post could equally be pertinant to another thread about the so-called-driverless trains that London wont be able to afford in the future...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2011 19:31:53 GMT
Is that so? That post could equally be pertinant to another thread about the so-called-driverless trains that London wont be able to afford in the future... Hmm the other rumour is that Metro drivers are paid around half what LUL drivers get  |
|
Tom
Administrator
Signalfel?
Posts: 4,198
|
Post by Tom on Nov 5, 2011 20:53:00 GMT
Tyne and Wear metro in Newcastle Yes not a bad system but based on low service frequencies than on tube. Also isn't it considered to be a light rail system? Its signalling is based on very similar principles to Conventional LU signalling, including the concept of individually calculated overlaps and trainstops (though theirs are inductive, not mechanical). Certainly a few people I know have been involved on T&WM signalling mods principally for their knowledge of LU. Back on thread, however: The original overlaps on the Jubilee Line were calculated for 1972TS (or probably older, in fact!) performance. 1996TS performance greatly exceeds that, especially at the higher end of the scale. LU therefore had two choices upon introduction of 1996TS with regards to the 'original' Jubilee line: 1) Resignal it immediately with signal positions to suit higher performance (some bits only dating from 1984!), which could then have a knock-on effect on the Metropolitan line as signals on parallel lines should be co-located; or 2) Limit the train performance until the next planned resignalling. I think the option taken was by far the more cost-effective. Also with regards to the reliability of the Jubilee line's old signalling system; it was one of the newer conventional bits. The weakness was the throughput of trains on the extension where the signalling wasn't designed to handle large numbers of trains. |
|
|
|
Post by jardine01 on Nov 5, 2011 21:44:40 GMT
Sorry this is slightly off topic the Tyne and wear metro system trains do have allot of power however not as quick off the Mark as a 1992 stock train! however the Tyne and wear metro has only 2 carriages and they use a 1,500 v dc overhead line power. The trains were built by metro camel and do look a bit like the d78 stock shape. The metro is not as good as the London underground and the frequency of trains is every 6-12 minutes which on the underground would be classed as a minor or severe delay. However at peak times is around every 2 minutes. I go on the metro a few times year to see my friends in newcastle.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2011 22:33:16 GMT
Of course we were all caught up in this, last night, group of us were going from Canary Wharf to Piccadilly, never got started and so we gave up. Everyone around saying Jubilee all broken down again, which we are all familiar with, it is normal. Bars at Canary Wharf all love this when it happens at going home time.
Dont know yet what happened to colleague with suitcase going through London Bridge station to Gatwick airport and plane home for weekend, there were no taxis left for him either and Docklands always useless when this happens, you squeeze in, stop stop stop, and then all put off at the Shadwell station because Bank too crowded.
One of us said expression Jubilee was "Conked Out" which I have not heard myself before, but seems very describing!
|
|
