Upton Park c2c?

[Deleted]

Some of Dave's stories talk about the huge numbers of people using District and H&C services to reach Upton Park, in order to watch a football game at West Ham's ground.

Has anyone ever suggested the reinstatement of the fast line NR platforms at Upton Park, to permit c2c trains to share the loadings from West Ham?

[Colin]

I would imagine that would cause big problems. I used to work on the stations at Fulham Broadway, which is the station for Chelsea's home games. Although the ground capacity at Upton Park is about 5,000 less, my experience would suggest that the ticket hall would not cope with upto four trains disgorging passengers at the same time. Also more staff would be required to control the flow of said passengers and safely dispatch the trains. Would c2c supply these extras ?! Somehow I don't think the HSE/HMRI/BTP/MET would approve either. Nice idea, but I can't see it happening.

[Deleted]

Hmmmm.

www.london-underground.de/fotos/district/stepney_green-upminster/upton_park_station_1.jpg implies that Upton Park has quite a substantital station building, presumably from the days when the fast line platforms were still in use. Is it not possible to bring the disused portions of the station building back into use?

[Deleted]

TheOneKEA said:

Is it not possible to bring the disused portions of the station building back into use?

The staircases are still in place on the Up platform, all that is really needed is to kill the Triffids and resurface the platform, the Down platform wouldn't be able to be used as it is fenced off .

[Deleted]

Jim said:

The staircases are still in place on the Up platform, all that is really needed is to kill the Triffids and resurface the platform, the Down platform wouldn't be able to be used as it is fenced off .

Er, perhaps you meant that in reverse?

The westbound District platform is the other side of the down c2c platform; the up c2c platform is the one that you may be referring to.

But why bother only restoring one platform? Surely it would make more sense to restore both, unless the up platform has not been cared for properly and has become completely unusable.

[Deleted]

TheOneKEA said:

Er, perhaps you meant that in reverse?

The westbound District platform is the other side of the down c2c platform; the up c2c platform is the one that you may be referring to.

But why bother only restoring one platform? Surely it would make more sense to restore both, unless the up platform has not been cared for properly and has become completely unusable.

The Down can't be used because it is fenced off and the platform is used by westbound District line passengers. The staircase is still in place for the UP platform, at least it was a few years back when I last saw it.

[Deleted]

I still don't understand. Why is it not possible to emove the fence dividing the central island into the down c2c platform and the westbound District platform? Would there potentially be crowd control issues?

[Deleted]

TheOneKEA said:

I still don't understand. Why is it not possible to emove the fence dividing the central island into the down c2c platform and the westbound District platform? Would there potentially be crowd control issues?

The c2c do 70mph through this section, quite frightening on a anarrow busy platform.

[Colin]

With regard to the size of the building, don't forget there's a ticket office, etc in there. The actual ticket hall is relatively small. As i said before, based on my experiences at Fulham Broadway, i don't feel the current station could cope. Potentially, you could have 1,000 people (per train) getting off a West and Eastbound District trains and possibly the same again off two 8 car c2c trains. That's 4,000 people exiting the station with the next district line trains arriving very soon after with another 2,000 people. Ok, that's worst case scenario, but not impossible. Also as Jim say's, c2c trains can pass at 70 mph. It's for those reasons alone that i feel it's a non starter.
I would suggest that you visit Fulham Broadway on a football day (the platforms are a little wider though) and observe the amount of people using the station and how the crowds are managed. The Westbound is busiset before games and the Eastbound busiest after. If you go on a Saturday for a 3pm kick off, be there at about 1.30pm. Don't get me wrong, TheoneKEA, i really do like your idea. But the safety side of it causes me concern.

[Deleted]

Is it not possible to do crowd control then?

[Colin]

It's certainly possible, but you have to consider the wider issue of the effects on train service, ordinary customer's using the station and how the crowds move away and disperse from the station entrance.
One of the most effective methods of control (before games) is to hold a train in the platform until the platform is almost clear as this reduces the risk of someone falling on the track. The problem is, if you double the number exiting, you double the time this takes to achieve, buggering up the service for everyone else. At the end of a game trains are again held. They are then filled to capacity. When the following train is as close as signals allow, the held train is allowed to depart. This way there is virtually always a train at the platform thus keeping the flow of customers through the station steady. Sorry to go on and on, but does that make sense?

[Deleted]

It makes sense.

I suppose then that reopening the c2c platforms at Upton Park would not be a straightforward refurbishment of the derelict portions of the station; it would most likely involve widening the central island.

Thanks for the input.

[Deleted]

I do have an idea.

Well whatif they had gates they could bring across with wheels underneath when that platform is not inuse.

I mean not in use as in the trains would only stop on match days!

but still it sounds dangerous to me.

Cheers
James

[Colin]

eorjames said:

I do have an idea.

Well whatif they had gates they could bring across with wheels underneath when that platform is not inuse.

I mean not in use as in the trains would only stop on match days!

but still it sounds dangerous to me.

Cheers
James

c2c stopping on normal days could be a possibilty - providing they all stop, as the platforms are not wide enough for a non stopping 70mph train to pass safely. c2c stopping on match days, I believe, would be a no no on safety grounds as I have said above.
In all honesty though, I can't see c2c being that interested in stopping at Upton Park at any time.

[Phil]

colin said:

In all honesty though, I can't see c2c being that interested in stopping at Upton Park at any time.

Yes- Given the choice of having footie crowds on your trains or not, what would you do?