DLR service enhancements

[snoggle]

I see that TfL are plugging the improvements that will be delivered under the new concession with KeolisAmey. The essential elements revealed so far are :-

1. Enhanced late evening frequency Bank - Lewisham
2. Enhanced off peak service to Woolwich Arsenal
3. Longer trains at weekends on the Stratford - Canary Wharf route
4. A 5 minute headway on all routes from 2017

Looking at items 1 and 3 I assume this is simpler running more mileage and utilising units that would otherwise stand spare at weekends.

For items 2 and 4 I assume something more substantial is needed in terms of the fleet or the enhancements are not as dazzling as they first appear. The Woolwich Arsenal service enhancement does not say how far the extra service will run - just to Canning Town or further? For the 5 minute service on all routes this will presumably require additional stock or a rebalancing of 2 and 3 car formations - does anyone know? There's an obvious dependency with the Pudding Mill Lane - Bow Church doubling works being completed to allow the enhanced headway but it's the rolling stock fleet that I thought was the constraint on service expansion. Previous TfL plans did not envisage any extra rolling stock purchases until around 2022 but these improvements are due 5 years earlier.

[Deleted]

Hopefully they'll someday change that cold and unfriendly DVA. It's unpleasant listening to.

[melikepie]

Just wishful thinking but I hope in future the service all day alternated between Woolwich Arsenal and Beckton, even during the peaks, for the Stratford International Branch, not completely switch to one

[Dstock7080]

Some enhancements coming from 2 February:

"Some routes and first and last train times will also change. These include:

- Twice as many trains between Woolwich Arsenal and Canning Town during off-peak hours and at weekends with a train every 4-5 minutes
- Beckton-Stratford International service will be replaced with a Beckton-West Ham service operating from 10:00 to 16:00 Monday to Friday and from 08:30 Saturdays and 10:30 Sundays to 19:30. Interchange at West Ham for trains towards Stratford International. When no West Ham service is shown, take the first train and change at Canning Town
- Twice as many trains between Bank and Lewisham from 21:00 to 23:30 Monday to Friday with a train every 5 minutes
- Longer 3-carriage DLR trains at weekends between Stratford and Canary Wharf, increasing capacity by half"

link

[Chris M]

Does that mean the Stratford International service is only running to Woolwich Aresenal?

[crusty54]

Jan 18, 2015 16:30:57 GMT Dstock7080 said:

Some enhancements coming from 2 February:

"Some routes and first and last train times will also change. These include:

- Twice as many trains between Woolwich Arsenal and Canning Town during off-peak hours and at weekends with a train every 4-5 minutes
- Beckton-Stratford International service will be replaced with a Beckton-West Ham service operating from 10:00 to 16:00 Monday to Friday and from 08:30 Saturdays and 10:30 Sundays to 19:30. Interchange at West Ham for trains towards Stratford International. When no West Ham service is shown, take the first train and change at Canning Town
- Twice as many trains between Bank and Lewisham from 21:00 to 23:30 Monday to Friday with a train every 5 minutes
- Longer 3-carriage DLR trains at weekends between Stratford and Canary Wharf, increasing capacity by half"

link

That suggests Woolwich Arsenal to Stratford International becomes all day which will be great.

[snoggle]

Jan 18, 2015 16:30:57 GMT Dstock7080 said:

Some enhancements coming from 2 February:

"Some routes and first and last train times will also change. These include:

- Twice as many trains between Woolwich Arsenal and Canning Town during off-peak hours and at weekends with a train every 4-5 minutes
- Beckton-Stratford International service will be replaced with a Beckton-West Ham service operating from 10:00 to 16:00 Monday to Friday and from 08:30 Saturdays and 10:30 Sundays to 19:30. Interchange at West Ham for trains towards Stratford International. When no West Ham service is shown, take the first train and change at Canning Town
- Twice as many trains between Bank and Lewisham from 21:00 to 23:30 Monday to Friday with a train every 5 minutes
- Longer 3-carriage DLR trains at weekends between Stratford and Canary Wharf, increasing capacity by half"

link

Hmmm - can't see the loss of the Stratford - Beckton service being popular. Forcing a change at West Ham just looks clumsy to me and I suspect it won't last. It's nice to see a through Stratford Int - Woolwich service and I expect it'll be well used. However so are Stratford to Beckton trains. I expect they are trying to squeeze the best service out of the current fleet but illogical service patterns that don't cover key demand corridors won't go down well with the public.

[Hassaan]

Jan 18, 2015 17:57:35 GMT snoggle said:

Jan 18, 2015 16:30:57 GMT Dstock7080 said:

Some enhancements coming from 2 February:

"Some routes and first and last train times will also change. These include:

- Twice as many trains between Woolwich Arsenal and Canning Town during off-peak hours and at weekends with a train every 4-5 minutes
- Beckton-Stratford International service will be replaced with a Beckton-West Ham service operating from 10:00 to 16:00 Monday to Friday and from 08:30 Saturdays and 10:30 Sundays to 19:30. Interchange at West Ham for trains towards Stratford International. When no West Ham service is shown, take the first train and change at Canning Town
- Twice as many trains between Bank and Lewisham from 21:00 to 23:30 Monday to Friday with a train every 5 minutes
- Longer 3-carriage DLR trains at weekends between Stratford and Canary Wharf, increasing capacity by half"

link

Hmmm - can't see the loss of the Stratford - Beckton service being popular. Forcing a change at West Ham just looks clumsy to me and I suspect it won't last. It's nice to see a through Stratford Int - Woolwich service and I expect it'll be well used. However so are Stratford to Beckton trains. I expect they are trying to squeeze the best service out of the current fleet but illogical service patterns that don't cover key demand corridors won't go down well with the public.

It does look like a halving of the frequency between Beckton and Canning Town outside the peaks and the times mentioned. The only way I found out about it was a small yellow sticker on the current timetable posters, which said "service improvements from 2 February" and to go to the website to find them out. TBH I'm not actually too sure which branch out of Woolwich or Beckton is busier away from the peaks, it is definitely Woolwich during the peaks but outside those times it is roughly equal. 

[crusty54]

No cut to the service between Beckton and Canning Town as there will still be the Tower Gateway trains.

[Chris M]

The argument I've always heard for the current service from Stratford International (Woolwich in the peaks, Beckton off peak) is that the demand profile of the lines is very different - The Woolwich branch is very busy in the peaks but quieter off peak so the 5 minute service to Canning Town (where many people change for the JLE) is not needed all day; whereas the Beckton branch has a much flatter profile with ExCeL and UEL generating traffic spread more through the day and often busiest off-peak than is seen on the Woolwich branch - the 5 minute off-peak service was better used than it would be to Woolwich and the branch could cope with only a 10 minute service in the peaks.

From when I lived in the area, that does seem to be true of the Beckton branch east of Royal Victoria (which is used massively more in the peaks than off peak) excluding major events at ExCeL (and many of them don't generate batches of traffic but a flow all day). The Beckton-Stratford direct service will be missed for its convenience though. What most people living in the area want to see though is trains from Stratford (International) alternating destinations all day.

[stapler]

Why not more through Stratford - Lewisham trains, rather than the present Canary Wharf reversers?

[Chris M]

I don't know. It would certainly improve journeys from the Lewisham branch to Poplar and points east of there.

[davidp]

Jan 18, 2015 22:27:09 GMT stapler said:

Why not more through Stratford - Lewisham trains, rather than the present Canary Wharf reversers?

There are times when I would like to see that happen but I think some of the reasons why no off-peak services run between Stratford and Lewisham could be:

1. the frequencies of the two routes differ so dovetailing them may prove a challenge;
2. the present off-peak Canary Wharf to Lewisham provision is more than adequate so there's no necessity for more trains
3. it's very noticeable that on trains from Lewisham coming into Canary Wharf, significantly more people stay on the train towards Bank than change to go to Stratford so reducing the number of Bank to Lewisham services (presumably to be replaced by Stratford to Lewisham and Bank to Canary Wharf services) would potentially cause more inconvenience than the present situation.

[Chris M]

Reducing the number of Bank-Lewisham trains is a non-starter.

From my point of view living on the Isle of Dogs, what would be really helpful would be Woolwich or Beckton (or at least Canning Town) to Canary Wharf (or points south thereof) services to avoid the need to change at both Canary Wharf and Poplar or go via street level at Westferry.

[crusty54]

Jan 20, 2015 11:54:48 GMT Chris M said:

Reducing the number of Bank-Lewisham trains is a non-starter.

From my point of view living on the Isle of Dogs, what would be really helpful would be Woolwich or Beckton (or at least Canning Town) to Canary Wharf (or points south thereof) services to avoid the need to change at both Canary Wharf and Poplar or go via street level at Westferry.

Sometimes run Woolwich to Lewisham during weekend engineering works.

[Chris M]

And there is also one service a day Gallions Reach to Lewisham at the start of the evening peak, but neither are helpful the majority of the time.

[snoggle]

A recent Mayors Question and Answer show that TfL is planning further service improvements for the Beckton branch.

DLR Trains
from
Beckton
Question
No:
2015/1458


Andrew
Boff

Would
the
Mayor
consider
running
direct
DLR
trains
from
Beckton
to
Stratford
International?


The
Mayor



The
DLR
timetable
change
in
February
2015
is
the
first
in
a
series
of
improvements
over
the
next
two
to
three
years
that
will
eventually
result
in
a
five-minute
service
operating
across
the
DLR
network.


TfL
is
carrying
out
this
service
enhancement
in
stages,
to
ensure
that
service
reliability
is
not
adversely
affected.
This
means
that
passengers
on
some
parts
of
the
network
have
been
inconvenienced
for
a
short
period
of
time.
These
difficult
decisions
were
taken
based
upon
the
relative
demand
between
different
parts
of
the
network
-
both
current
and
predicted.


As
a
consequence
of
this
change,
it
was
necessary
to
temporarily
withdraw
direct
services
between
Stratford
International
and
Beckton,
meaning
that
passengers
need
to
change
at Canning
Town.
This
service
will
be
reinstated
in
due
course.
However,
the
dates
are
yet
to
be confirmed.


Plans
are
also
being
developed
to
resume
a
five-minute
service
during
early
mornings
and
evening
periods
between
Canning
Town
and
Beckton;
this
is
likely
to
occur
before
reinstatement
of
the
direct
service.